First unexplained deaths, now lame hen

[KatyTheChickenLady]

Quote:
she has lost at least three.
Lethargic
thin
not laying
limping

 

[DianeB]

I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my hen a few weeks ago. She also was slowly wasting away and never layed.

Do you have an extension that can do an autopsy? Most will do it for free on flocks with 500 or less chickens. That is the only way you will know what is wrong. Call a avian or farm vet or the local ag university to find out.

DB

 

[threehorses]

uwharrie wrote (on another post):



1) What type of bird , age and weight.
Austroloups 1-6months old 1-8 months old
New Hampshire Red 5 months old

2) What is the behavior, exactly.
Normal, active, foraging. dead a few hours later

3) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
No

4) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
At first I suspected heat with the two Austroloups as it had been in the 90s that day, hen house is shaded and roomy, free access to water and feed. They were let out to free range at 4pm and found dead at 7pm. No marks on either bird. Birds were found in different areas. Third bird (New Hampshire) found dead in the coop one morning. No marks but head/neck had matted feathers ( as in being wet) I assume she regurgitated on herself as she was dying)

5) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.

Free access to 20% laying crumbles, fresh water ( with vinegar) free range daily

6) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
normal

7) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
None other than vinegar in water and no longer letting them range

8 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
If I lose any more they are going to the lab for necropsy

10) Describe the housing/bedding in use

10x10 converted playhouse with windows for cross ventilation. pine shavings for bedding ( cleaned of acumilated poo as needed)

After I lost the third hen I found out Round up had been sprayed near the coop and where they free range. However I can not find any written evidence that round up would have killed them.
They did have access to a manure (horse) pile. Other than Roundup no other chemicals have been used.

I did notice when I checked thier body condition thier keels seemed a bit bony to me. But since I have only had my hands on meat birds in the past I was not sure how to compare.
I have two feeders set up and have observed all the birds eating. they are a peaceful group and no one seems to be bullied out of food

--------------------

She also wrote a couple of posts about a possible exposure to roundup (which hasn't been a concern since because it degrades quickly).

 

[threehorses]

OK, I remember your birds and the situations a few birds ago. Honestly if something like this happens, edit your original post. That means those of us who were waiting for updates will see things have changed and it allows us to have more of a back history of what was going on. (I was one person who was waiting for any responses, just in case I could help more.)

So if you wouldn't mind, if anything changes in the next few weeks with these birds, please update this post now that we have your basic information on here. I lost your thread when you switched posts. For that, I'm terribly sorry. I post a lot on here but we can't get them all.

OK, so currently they're still eating good and appropriate feed. I think I read earlier that roundup is not a concern likely and the other birds, spread out over a number of days, point to the fact that it's likely something else.

I see in the post I posted that you're no longer letting them free range - so that pretty much eliminates a few possibilities. Is that correct?

I'm wondering about a possible past exposure to mildew/molds which might have caused mycotoxins which don't go away quickly. Fungus can stay within birds' systems and continue to harm them through toxins and oil-vitamin deficiencies. This would be supported by the bird who was apparently fine one moment and dead hours later. Also it causes walking problems, paralysis, weight loss, etc etc. We can't rule it out without a vet, but supportive treatments done STRONGLY for a week can help and won't hurt. By treating for that, we might inadvertently treat for something else as the supporting treatment recommendations are all immune boosting and healthful.

I would like again for you to go through the whole area where your birds were and are. Look for signs of clumps of mildew, the smell of mildew, any signs of berries or fruits that are dropping into the area. Manure piles area source of fungus, particularly if not airy, and they're still a concern not yet ruled out. Look for places where the horses might drop feed (behind their bins where they can't reach, etc) where it might be sitting and the hens could get to them. Determine whether or not the hens are getting a good deal of sweet feed. Look for anything that you think might be an issue at all. Check all hens - their weights, their vents, their droppings, their breathing, their pupils for any shape changes or lack of reaction, for any slowness to react to usual stimuli. For parasites, for mites at night, for anything other than 100% healthy. Report everything no matter how seemingly small. It's often the most small pieces of the puzzle that are the solutions to the mystery! Let's try to catch that clue.

Are you still giving the vinegar and, if so, was it organic apple cider vinegar? If so, at what rate?

Did you try switching feeds - like buying a new bag? Has this all occurred on one batch of feed and, if so, was the feed used within one month's time? Have you examined your feed bins to make sure there are no smells there? Can you verify that your feed is being kept in an air-tight light-preventing container in a cool place?

Do you use city water, or well water?

On the ill bird, I would immediately put her in a small area separate from the others. She doesn't have to be completely isolated, but kept where she doesn't walk much, and the other birds don't have access to her droppings.

I would encourage you to start with a gentle flush of her digestive tract as follows: Day one damp mash: 1 tablespoon of yogurt, 1 teaspoon of applesauce (babyfood type is cheap and fine), less than 1/8 teaspoon of molasses 1 tablespoon of water. Mix those together. Add to an equal amount of crumbles. Stir well. Allow to set for 10 minutes until absorbed. It it's wet, and not damp, add more crumbles or boiled egg yolk until it's more damp than wet. Give this to her as the first meal of the day. If not, remove her feed for 30 minutes and then feed this to her.

The applesauce gently cleanses the digestive tract, while the pectin feeds the good bacteria. The yogurt replenishes the lactobacilli bacteria of the gut. The very small amount of molasses acts as a flush. If there are toxins within her, that will help.

Provide water for the day: vitamins/electrolytes or at LEAST electrolytes in her water all day.

Thereafter for a week, you will do the same mash but without the applesauce and molasses. You may add vitamins if she'll eat the entire thing, each bit. If not, you will give vitamins directly to her beak. The water will change to the organic apple cider vinegar water: 1 teaspoon of OACV to 1 gallon of water. OACV used daily should help with digestive fungus issues.

DAILY FOR NO LESS THAN 1 WEEK GIVE THE FOLLOWING (taper off on week 2):

- Polyvisol (Enfamil brand) baby vitamins, 3 drops in the beak daily. Non-iron-fortified. (I found mine in the Walmart vitamin section)
- Vitamin E oil capsule: 400 to 700 IU dosage. Slit the capsules's end and squeeze into mouth. If you can find an E/selenium oil capsule with **less than 50 MICROgrams of selenium**, then use that instead for three days during the week replacing the straight vitamin E. (Micrograms are denoted as ug, not mg). If you can't find the oil capsules for humans of E and selenium, use the straight E oil capsule instead.
- B complex tablet (crushed into boiled egg yolk mashed with water) or brewer's yeast, sprinkling a pinch on top of egg or the wet mash.

This will support neurological issues, B deficiency issues, and replacement of oil vitamins if there was a mycotoxin issue. If mycotoxins, using living bacteria help to reduce the ability of the fungus to morph into its pathogenic multi-celled form from the natural one-celled yeast form that is present in the body. There are different types of fungus, however, and PRObiotics are active to some extent against them all. They can be overcome, however, which is why we did the flush.

If there are still any toxins in the digestive tract, or fungi, then the flush will gently push them through without being a full flush which I don't think would be appropriate at this time. If the fungi are out of the digestive tract, they can't remain there making toxins. If there's something else in there, the same. using the bacteria during and after the flush replaces the good bacteria that are flushed out with the other things.

All birds can and should receive at least daily yogurt for now, OACV in the water at least every other day, and then vitamins/electrolytes on the days where you don't use the OACV. I would do this no less than a week, possibly two for them.

Again, this is all non-medicinal as the symptoms are so broad and vague that it's hard to pinpoint. But there were some indications of fungal exposure and again the treatment supports a very broad spectrum immune boost. If there is a slight digestive issue, the probiotics will help. If it's Marek's (I doubt it is) then there's not much you can do anyway other than boost their immune systems.

This is my suggestion. Incidentally, I don't know if you mentioned it or not, but I'd also want to see all hens on oyster shell given free-choice. It would be good to rule out egg production/calcium absorbtion issues.

Note: If they had access to fungi, and the oil vitamin deficiency happened at all, it could also effect their calcium absorbtion as it would have intefered with their vitamin D3 absorbtion. I'm interested in the laying histories (or lack thereof) with your girls.

I'm sorry for the delayed response and although I'm sorry you've had more losses, I'm glad that maybe we can get to work on this and do something about it for you.

Please feel free, as always, to email me, PM me, or respond to THIS thread with any questions. thank you.

 

[farmergal]

Threehorses gave an awesome answer, and I would definitely follow her advice! If there's anything wrong with your birds health-wise that should certainly help.
However, something you (uwharrie) said struck me as odd... that the first bird's feathers were wet around her neck. And now the other one seems to have an injured leg. Is there ANY way that a dog or other predator could get into your chicken yard or chicken coop? Do you have a dog, or do your neighbors have one, that might like chasing chickens? A dog could scare a chicken to death without any obvious physical wounds... it could also break a chicken's leg, grabbing it while it tried to fly away (or chasing it into a fence, breaking its leg, etc.)
Also, the stress of being "under attack" could stop your hens from laying.
Just a random thought from someone who has had a problem or two with dogs and other predators.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Good thought there! I'd say that would definitely be something to be ruled out. Which reminds me - if the chickens are around horses, could a horse have stepped on the one with the injured leg? Or hit it? I've had that happen with my hens before.