First winter with chickens ... a couple questions

[MIChickandGuinea]

Hi, everyone! This will be my first Michigan winter with chickens, and I want to be sure that I'm well set up to keep the ladies happy and healthy. To start with, we have 10 chickens - 1 rooster and 9 layers (Leghorn, marans, easter-egger, light brahma, isa brown).

I would have thought that it would be best to keep the food/water inside their coop (which is fairly large - 4'x8' floor, with elevated sidecar nesting boxes, and a roof tall enough for a person to stand up inside ... perches, ledges, etc. available for additional "personal space" for birds to move around in). But I am gathering that most people keep food/water outside of the coop, in the covered run?? What's the reason for this?

What is the best way to make sure that there's non-frozen, CLEAN water available? I use a nipple waterer right now, because it's so much cleaner than the drinkers with the tray around the bottom. But I worry that in very cold weather, the valves will freeze up even if the water has a submerged heater to keep it from freezing.

I keep reading about people adjusting their feed regimen to provide winter weather support to their flock, but there's a huge variety of approaches. Is there a ready-made feed product or additive that I can get that will give the girls what they need without me needing to be a full-time chef/mixologist for birds?

VENTILATION and HEATING!! I know that ventilation is a huge deal for chickens, and most of the year, it's not a problem - we have sliders and windows all over the place to keep airflow going. But when it gets very cold (or if a nasty windy blizzard is howling), I imagine we should close the windows to let the ladies conserve their body heat. But then there's the concern of the humidity from their respiration accumulating, condensing, and causing frostbite. The roof of their coop has insulation boards in it, but the rest of the coop is not heated or insulated ... because I was told that heating the coop can cause under-developed feather/down development and temperature shock when they spend time outside. So does anyone have guidelines about HOW COLD it can be and have the chickens still safe/comfortable with some open windows/vents? And is there a temperature at which a panel heater or overhead heat light would be a good idea? I absolutely know that this can all be managed, because loads of people in our area keep chickens. I just want to make sure that I'm properly prepared so that I don't lose any of our little friends to "learning things the hard way".

 

[Kusanar]

Hi, everyone! This will be my first Michigan winter with chickens, and I want to be sure that I'm well set up to keep the ladies happy and healthy. To start with, we have 10 chickens - 1 rooster and 9 layers (Leghorn, marans, easter-egger, light brahma, isa brown).

I would have thought that it would be best to keep the food/water inside their coop (which is fairly large - 4'x8' floor, with elevated sidecar nesting boxes, and a roof tall enough for a person to stand up inside ... perches, ledges, etc. available for additional "personal space" for birds to move around in). But I am gathering that most people keep food/water outside of the coop, in the covered run?? What's the reason for this?

Ok, with a 4*8 space, you have 32 square feet of floor space for 10 birds which is a little tight. I know you said you have extra elevated places for them to be which is great and will help with the crowding some. Most people keep the water outside to keep the humidity out of the coup and keep the girls from soaking their bedding. Feed doesn't need to be available at night, so putting it outside is also fine and will free up space inside.

What is the best way to make sure that there's non-frozen, CLEAN water available? I use a nipple waterer right now, because it's so much cleaner than the drinkers with the tray around the bottom. But I worry that in very cold weather, the valves will freeze up even if the water has a submerged heater to keep it from freezing. ".

In your climate, if the water is outside, the nipple waterers probably will freeze, some people use heated dog bowls for winter and some just provide water several times a day. I haven't seen any GREAT ideas on keeping water liquid in winter yet.

I keep reading about people adjusting their feed regimen to provide winter weather support to their flock, but there's a huge variety of approaches. Is there a ready-made feed product or additive that I can get that will give the girls what they need without me needing to be a full-time chef/mixologist for birds?

I have seen 2 schools of thought on changing rations for winter. There are some people that believe that chickens need more nutrition to stay warm in cold weather and then some that say that since the birds aren't as active and they are also slowing down their laying, that they actually need less. If adding more, you can give treats like mealworms, suet blocks (hanging so they have to work to get to it), warm oatmeal, etc. If doing less, you can actually mix some cheap grain such as cracked corn or scratch in with the feed to stretch it out some and make the feed go further.

VENTILATION and HEATING!! I know that ventilation is a huge deal for chickens, and most of the year, it's not a problem - we have sliders and windows all over the place to keep airflow going. But when it gets very cold (or if a nasty windy blizzard is howling), I imagine we should close the windows to let the ladies conserve their body heat. But then there's the concern of the humidity from their respiration accumulating, condensing, and causing frostbite. The roof of their coop has insulation boards in it, but the rest of the coop is not heated or insulated ... because I was told that heating the coop can cause under-developed feather/down development and temperature shock when they spend time outside. So does anyone have guidelines about HOW COLD it can be and have the chickens still safe/comfortable with some open windows/vents? And is there a temperature at which a panel heater or overhead heat light would be a good idea? I absolutely know that this can all be managed, because loads of people in our area keep chickens. I just want to make sure that I'm properly prepared so that I don't lose any of our little friends to "learning things the hard way".

I would NOT heat that coup. Everyone thinks that heating the coup is kindness, especially in bitter cold, but think about it, how warm is it usually when the power goes out in winter? Usually when it's REALLY cold... if the birds are used to having a heater and then the power goes out in a bad cold snap, you are likely to have sick or even dead birds because they aren't used to it. Also, with as many birds as you have in the coup, the humidity from their breath and droppings is going to spike if you close the ventilation. You actually don't want the coup to hold heat but you don't want very strong wind going through there either. As long as when the birds are on the roost the air doesn't hit them hard enough to actually blow their feathers around they should be fine, they are wearing down coats after all. One thing I would do is make sure your roosts are flat so that they don't wrap their toes around it, if they sit with their feet flat on the roost, their chest feathers will keep their toes warm at night.

 

[MIChickandGuinea]

Ok, with a 4*8 space, you have 32 square feet of floor space for 10 birds which is a little tight. I know you said you have extra elevated places for them to be which is great and will help with the crowding some. Most people keep the water outside to keep the humidity out of the coup and keep the girls from soaking their bedding. Feed doesn't need to be available at night, so putting it outside is also fine and will free up space inside.


In your climate, if the water is outside, the nipple waterers probably will freeze, some people use heated dog bowls for winter and some just provide water several times a day. I haven't seen any GREAT ideas on keeping water liquid in winter yet.


I have seen 2 schools of thought on changing rations for winter. There are some people that believe that chickens need more nutrition to stay warm in cold weather and then some that say that since the birds aren't as active and they are also slowing down their laying, that they actually need less. If adding more, you can give treats like mealworms, suet blocks (hanging so they have to work to get to it), warm oatmeal, etc. If doing less, you can actually mix some cheap grain such as cracked corn or scratch in with the feed to stretch it out some and make the feed go further.


I would NOT heat that coup. Everyone thinks that heating the coup is kindness, especially in bitter cold, but think about it, how warm is it usually when the power goes out in winter? Usually when it's REALLY cold... if the birds are used to having a heater and then the power goes out in a bad cold snap, you are likely to have sick or even dead birds because they aren't used to it. Also, with as many birds as you have in the coup, the humidity from their breath and droppings is going to spike if you close the ventilation. You actually don't want the coup to hold heat but you don't want very strong wind going through there either. As long as when the birds are on the roost the air doesn't hit them hard enough to actually blow their feathers around they should be fine, they are wearing down coats after all. One thing I would do is make sure your roosts are flat so that they don't wrap their toes around it, if they sit with their feet flat on the roost, their chest feathers will keep their toes warm at night.

OK - tons of helpful info in your reply. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. An immediate question I thought of is regarding flat roosts. If I make one of those cool ladder-like angled roosts (looks halfway between stairs and a ladder) made from 2x4s laid flat, would that keep their feet safe?

 

[lazy gardener]

Excellent post by Kusanar.

Agreed, no heat necessary. Your ventilation may actually be a bit inadequate. And you don't want to close things up at night or during storms unless the weather drops down into single digits.

we have sliders and windows all over the place to keep airflow going. But when it gets very cold (or if a nasty windy blizzard is howling), I imagine we should close the windows to let the ladies conserve their body heat. But then there's the concern of the humidity from their respiration accumulating, condensing, and causing frostbite.

More info needed about exactly what you have for sliders and windows (location, size of them, how many) And are there any vents? Or just the windows?

Agreed, 4 x 8 is very tight space, especially with a rooster, and double especially (grammar police are gonna get me for that one!) in the winter. More chickens in a tighter space = more poo and respiration moisture, and more stress. What do you have for a run? If you can create a sheltered sun room (in your run) for them, that will be a winter stress buster. If you can load that sun room up with a hay bale tunnel, and a deep litter made up of hay and leaves, they will be spending most of every day outside in all but the nastiest weather. My flock loves their winter sun room, and the temp out there is at least 20 - 30* warmer than the outside temp in my yard.

 

[MIChickandGuinea]

Excellent post by Kusanar.

Agreed, no heat necessary. Your ventilation may actually be a bit inadequate. And you don't want to close things up at night or during storms unless the weather drops down into single digits.



More info needed about exactly what you have for sliders and windows (location, size of them, how many) And are there any vents? Or just the windows?

Agreed, 4 x 8 is very tight space, especially with a rooster, and double especially (grammar police are gonna get me for that one!) in the winter. More chickens in a tighter space = more poo and respiration moisture, and more stress. What do you have for a run? If you can create a sheltered sun room (in your run) for them, that will be a winter stress buster. If you can load that sun room up with a hay bale tunnel, and a deep litter made up of hay and leaves, they will be spending most of every day outside in all but the nastiest weather. My flock loves their winter sun room, and the temp out there is at least 20 - 30* warmer than the outside temp in my yard.

We have 130 sq. ft. of outdoor runs. Of those, 64 sq. ft. are covered for rain/snow protection. Also, the birds have lots of free ranging opportunity every day, from mid-afternoon until chicken bedtime. There are many sheltered places they like to go out in the yard - under the deck, for example.

Vents - the space between wall and roof is one big vent - you know, those little spaces between roof rafters and the top wall, right up under the roof overhang. That’s a 2” gap all along both 8-ft walls. There is also a huge window in the wall of the coop that’s connected to the covered pen - meaning the window is always under cover and not as risk for rain/snow blowing in. So unless it’s a blowing blizzard and temps are crazy-cold, that window can always be open. It’s 18”x24”. There are also windows on each other wall.

 

[Kusanar]

OK - tons of helpful info in your reply. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. An immediate question I thought of is regarding flat roosts. If I make one of those cool ladder-like angled roosts (looks halfway between stairs and a ladder) made from 2x4s laid flat, would that keep their feet safe?

The 2x4 laid flat is what is recommended for keeping feet warm in winter so that part would work. I don't personally like the idea of the angled roosts you are talking about for a couple of reasons. Chickens want to be up high, they will squabble over the top rung, also, there is a good chance that they will poop on each other while they sleep... doesn't sound pleasant to me...

As for your venting, with 2 vents 2"x8' that is 384 inches square, the big window you mentioned is 432 inches square, this adds up to 816 inches of vent or 5.6 square feet. I believe the recommendation is 1 square foot per bird OR MORE, so unless the other windows that you mentioned are 4.5 square feet or more in size, you are likely on the very low end for ventilation.

 

[greggooo]

Ok, with a 4*8 space, you have 32 square feet of floor space for 10 birds which is a little tight. I know you said you have extra elevated places for them to be which is great and will help with the crowding some. Most people keep the water outside to keep the humidity out of the coup and keep the girls from soaking their bedding. Feed doesn't need to be available at night, so putting it outside is also fine and will free up space inside.


In your climate, if the water is outside, the nipple waterers probably will freeze, some people use heated dog bowls for winter and some just provide water several times a day. I haven't seen any GREAT ideas on keeping water liquid in winter yet.


I have seen 2 schools of thought on changing rations for winter. There are some people that believe that chickens need more nutrition to stay warm in cold weather and then some that say that since the birds aren't as active and they are also slowing down their laying, that they actually need less. If adding more, you can give treats like mealworms, suet blocks (hanging so they have to work to get to it), warm oatmeal, etc. If doing less, you can actually mix some cheap grain such as cracked corn or scratch in with the feed to stretch it out some and make the feed go further.


I would NOT heat that coup. Everyone thinks that heating the coup is kindness, especially in bitter cold, but think about it, how warm is it usually when the power goes out in winter? Usually when it's REALLY cold... if the birds are used to having a heater and then the power goes out in a bad cold snap, you are likely to have sick or even dead birds because they aren't used to it. Also, with as many birds as you have in the coup, the humidity from their breath and droppings is going to spike if you close the ventilation. You actually don't want the coup to hold heat but you don't want very strong wind going through there either. As long as when the birds are on the roost the air doesn't hit them hard enough to actually blow their feathers around they should be fine, they are wearing down coats after all. One thing I would do is make sure your roosts are flat so that they don't wrap their toes around it, if they sit with their feet flat on the roost, their chest feathers will keep their toes warm at night.

We just went through having all of these questions, too. Decided on instilling a cozy coop flat panel radiant heater for if it's crazy cold, just to take the edge off, but not enough to hurt them if it's not on or if they go outside and its below zero. It only raises the temp a few degrees.

Also moved the water out because of the moisture, but it's been getting under 32º in the coop anyway, so it'll be ice and useless to them. I have it in the run in one of the automatic metal ones on a base that keeps it just above freezing.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Everything you ask requires an opinion, you can get a lot of different opinions on here. No matter what one person tells you to do you can find someone else that does things differently and is quite successful. I’m sure you want someone to just tell you what to do but you’re going to have to decide that for yourself after reading what others do. Try to find someone that has conditions fairly close to you (climate and the way you manage them) and pay more attention to them than others, including me.

Some people keep food only in the coop, some only outside, and some do both. We all have our reasons for what we do. To me one need is to keep the feed dry, it will sour or mold if it gets wet and stays wet. You don’t want that. Another need is that feed and water needs to be available to them a fairly short time after they wake up and up until bedtime. That’s about it for general needs that I think we all should look at. I am almost always integrating younger birds so I want feed and water in a lot of different places. You don’t have that. I don’t get down there at the crack of dawn every day to let them out so food and water in the coop is a good idea for me. I also have a lot of room in the coop, you don’t. Mine can get outside practically every day of the year, it sounds like you have your run set up so yours can too, even when it snows or a cold wind is blowing. That is good.

You have to consider how you keep the water thawed enough so they can drink. I use black rubber bowls. If they freeze I knock the water out and refill them, the bowls won’t break. If the sun is shining the solar heat from that black rubber will keep water thawed at pretty low temperatures. The sun doesn’t shine at night and sometimes not during the day. If you have electricity to your coop you have options. There are people in your climate that manage that, even with nipples. Some of them give pretty detailed answers on what they do. I cannot help with nipples.

You’ll find people feeding their chickens all kinds of things to help them in winter, to help them when they are molting, or to help them when they are laying. I feed a Grower with oyster shell on the side year around. Mine forage for some stuff, and they get kitchen and garden scraps, but I don’t regularly feed them anything special. They’ve got the last of the garden scraps they are going to get until next spring. Mine are very healthy and do fine. Some of that stuff people tell you to feed them may help them, I’m not arguing some of it won’t. But in my opinion as long as you don’t overdo any of them they will not hurt your chickens. As long as you feed any of it in moderation you might help but you will not hurt them.

Your coop is tight but as long as that area in the run is available to them it’s not as bad as some people imagine. People tend to think in isolation, thinking of coop only or run only. Chickens don’t think like that. If they need room they don’t care if it is in the coop or the run, just that it is there somewhere. If they cannot get to that protected space in the run that coop is really tight for that many chickens. Letting them out in the afternoon doesn’t do them any good in the morning. If there is a blizzard going on it doesn’t do much good in the afternoon either except maybe in that protected run area. If they don’t have access to that protected area in the run your coop is very small.

The heating and ventilation question. I don’t see the cold you do, my lows are seldom lower than a few degrees below zero Fahrenheit. I have a larger coop with fewer chickens most winters. I have a lot of ventilation up high, eight to ten feet up. I have no idea of any ventilation area to coop size ratio, just that I have a lot. I don’t have any problems with frostbite or the chickens getting cold. Your area under the overhang will provide a lot of ventilation, but with your number of chickens and coop size I have no idea if it will be enough. Your big risk will be frostbite, not them freezing to death. The way a lot of people prevent or stop frostbite is to open up more ventilation, not make it tighter. The moisture is the problem, it needs to escape.

I use tree limbs and a 2x4 on edge as roosts. When mine settle down on the roosts at night when it is cold they fluff up their feathers for warmth. Their feet disappear under those feathers. Mine do not have frostbite issues. If you wish to use a 2x4 flat for roosts, that works fine. Some people think they are more comfortable on round or narrower roosts, some think they are more comfortable on a flat surface. I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other. Do what you wish.

I think that covers most of it. As long as that area in the run is available in all weather conditions I don’t think you have serious space issues but don’t try to integrate new chickens with that small coop. I’d like to see more ventilation but I don’t know if you really need it. A gable vent on one or both ends might really help. Your area is smaller than I like as you don’t have any room for flexibility if you do have an issue. I like flexibility.

 

[aart]

Hey MichiNeighbor!
I keep my feed and water in the coop.
Easier for me, especially during my harsh winters, and my run is not covered,
and because I use supplemental lighting it's essential for the birds.
But I have a roomy walk-in coop, no rodent problems, a spill proof-waste free feeder, and use a horizontal nipple waterer.

I close all windows but have beau coup eave venting and put some cardboard over the roosts to deflect some drafts that can get strong there. No heat used ever.
I have 6x16 coop space(plus another 30sqft of roost boards) for 17 birds, tried keeping a few more last year, it wasn't pretty during the days long storms we can get. But my the majority of my run is rather unprotected and I only shovel out part of it, so the extra coop space is essential IMO.

I don't change my feed regime except to grow some wheat fodder here and there to add green cheer for both the chickens and myself(just my eyes, I don't eat the stuff-haha).

 

[MIChickandGuinea]

Hey MichiNeighbor!
I keep my feed and water in the coop.
Easier for me, especially during my harsh winters, and my run is not covered,
and because I use supplemental lighting it's essential for the birds.
But I have a roomy walk-in coop, no rodent problems, a spill proof-waste free feeder, and use a horizontal nipple waterer.

I close all windows but have beau coup eave venting and put some cardboard over the roosts to deflect some drafts that can get strong there. No heat used ever.
I have 6x16 coop space(plus another 30sqft of roost boards) for 17 birds, tried keeping a few more last year, it wasn't pretty during the days long storms we can get. But my the majority of my run is rather unprotected and I only shovel out part of it, so the extra coop space is essential IMO.

I don't change my feed regime except to grow some wheat fodder here and there to add green cheer for both the chickens and myself(just my eyes, I don't eat the stuff-haha).

Aart - thanks for the ideas on the feeder and waterer. A couple clarification questions. For the feeder, do I understand that it's a big water bottle like from one of those office water coolers, a 5-gallon bucket with lid, and 2" PVC pipe? And that's it? It looks very do-able!! I will probably also make one for my free-ranged guinea fowl, who like to act like they're WILD BIRDS, and make an unholy mess with their food.
And for the waterer, why did you decide to use an aquarium heater instead of one of the commercially available submersible water heaters for livestock? There are many made/offered for heating water in a 5-gallon bucket. What advantage did you see in using the aquarium heater?
And how do you secure those nipple water valves so that they don't leak? I have several waterers that I have made over the past few months, and they always start out fine and end up leaking. Ugh!!