Flax seeds??

[Chris09]

It was one study that was done on 256 pullets (Shaver Whites and ISA Browns)


R

Quote:

Egg production, egg weight, shell weight, albumen

height, shell thickness, and eggshell deformation were
unaffected by feeding flaxseed (Tables 2, 4, 5, 8, and 9, P
> 0.05). An exception occurred in period 5 when flax-fed
hens showed increased (P < 0.05) shell thickness (Table
8). However, this was an isolated occurrence and therefore not deemed biologically significant. Flax-fed hens ate
significantly less feed during periods 4 and 6 compared
to control fed hens (Table 3). Hens fed flaxseed produced
eggs with a smaller (P < 0.05) percentage of wet yolk
compared to control fed birds during periods 5, 6, 7, and
9 (Table 7). Body weights were lighter (P < 0.05) for flaxfed hens compared to control fed hens, and there were
more (P < 0.01) liver hemorrhages detected in hens fed
flaxseed (Table 10).
Hen strain had a significant effect on several egg parameters; however, there was no effect of strain on egg production with the exception of periods 1 and 2 (Table 2).

Here is the study,

METABOLISM AND NUTRITION
Long-Term Effects of Feeding Flaxseed on Performance and Egg
Fatty Acid Composition of Brown and White Hens
http://www.poultryscience.org/ps/paperpdfs/03/p0330388.pdf


Chris

 

[Chris09]

Thanks for your follow up, Chris.

I can find the long-term study, but am not finding the study where the hens were fed 0, 4, 8, and 10% flax seeds.

The "Long Term" (25 weeks) study was done in Ontario.
http://ps.fass.org/content/82/3/388.long

The test you posted the link to here is a test done 0, 4, 8, and 10% flaxseeds.

Chris

 

[Spangled]

Quote: At what rate were these chickens fed the flax product that you are referring to?

There were 4 test groups,
Group 1 fed a feed with no flaxseed
Group 2 fed a feed with 4% flaxseed
Group 3 fed a feed with 8% flaxseed
Group 4 fed a feed with 10% flaxseed
The feed for a test birds was relatively the same in all test except for the amount of flaxseed.



Chris

Quote:
Nope. The two studies you linked two in the two previous posts (#11 and #12) are the same study by Bean and Leeson published in Poult. Sci. 2003 Mar vol. 82 no. 3 388-394.

There were not 4 tests groups as you indicate that ate 0, 4, 8, and 10% flax. Those 4 diets in the table were the phase-in diets used when they were getting the test group that was to eat the flax seed diet familiar to the feed so it wasn't a jolt to their systems. That can be found in the text portion of the study.

The authors posit that the liver hemorrhages could be because of the oxidative rancidity of the flax seed, which is what I had originally mentioned being a possible problem feeding ground flax seed in general (because of its contact with oxygen from the time it's ground until consumed). It might appear that oxidative rancidity (and consequently the liver hemorrhages) could be eradicated by feeding whole flax seed. And, no, I don't think that the chickens in the study were fed whole flax seed. 1) It's not likely because they need an unidentifiable mash or pellet for the chickens to eat and 2) the author of the study wouldn't mention the rancidity issue if whole flax seeds were used.

Frankly, I don't think the issues that Chris brings up are all that much of an issue for me if I carefully read the entire study instead of just quickly skimming it and when other flax related studies are read carefully also. There has been study after study on the effects of flax as feed stretching clear back to at least 1928. For me, it's better to read the actual studies rather than using someone else's quick analysis of a study. Besides, I'm not planning on ever feeding whole flaxseed again unless I'm desperate and then it won't be more than about 2% of total feed.

There are troubling issues at higher levels of inclusion of flaxseed meal (oil extracted), some dealing with weight issues, low lysine, some anti-nutritional factors such as linamarin which potentially can cause some big deal problems, also the anti-nutritional factor of linatine, and there's still the issue with rancidity. And the previous list is not complete, btw.

 

[Chris09]

The study way done on One group of birds that had 4 groups of testings.
As I said here;



Quote:


Quote: It really doesn't matter if the liver hemorrhages was or was not from oxidative rancidity, what does matter is that they got it from being fed Flaxseed. A simple test of the feed would have told them if the flaxseed was rancid.



Quote: So that you know and so that you can stop assuming things I did read the study (in fact more than once).
There my be studies, "stretching clear back to at least 1928" but are those studies as good as studies done to day, We have learned a lot since 1928 and science is better also.


Chris

 

[Sandyd]

I mix in some flaxseed with barley, oats, sunflower seeds and ground corn to soak overnight for my chickens. I have not noted any on the floor of my coop or in their droppings. It soaks overnight in the AC vinegar/water that I started a month ago. My broilers and my young and old hens just go crazy for this mixture that I feed them at night with. During the day they get ground feed that my DH grinds. I found my flaxseed, barley and oats at the local feed mill store and bought 50 lb bags each.

 

[Spangled]

Quote:

So that you know and so that you can stop assuming things I did read the study (in fact more than once).
There my be studies, "stretching clear back to at least 1928" but are those studies as good as studies done to day, We have learned a lot since 1928 and science is better also.


Chris

Whoa!

I didn't assume anything nor did I say that I assumed anything about you with my above statement. I said that I get a lot more out of an article if I read it than if I just quickly skim it. Good grief. How can that be about you? So I guess you can stop assuming things right back.

I would want to encourage the OP (original poster) and others to read the studies her/his self instead of just listening to what I think about a study.

And for the record, a majority of the studies from the 20s, 30s, 40s that I looked at (well, I didn't see those studies, but I looked at some titles and some results) were of the view that feeding flaxseed meal (not whole flax seed) was usually iffy or on the not such a great idea side of things. I at no time said that the studies since 1928 were as good as the studies of today. I'm not going to say either way because I don't know. My point was that feeding flax and writing papers about flax and doing studies on chickens eating flax it is not a new thing.

Now, I'll just move along.

 

[Spangled]

I mix in some flaxseed with barley, oats, sunflower seeds and ground corn to soak overnight for my chickens. I have not noted any on the floor of my coop or in their droppings. It soaks overnight in the AC vinegar/water that I started a month ago. My broilers and my young and old hens just go crazy for this mixture that I feed them at night with. During the day they get ground feed that my DH grinds. I found my flaxseed, barley and oats at the local feed mill store and bought 50 lb bags each.

Ah, I bet they all love it, and with broilers you will get a tasty chicken (corn, sunflower) with great a great Omega 3 profile (flax).

 

[Chris09]

Spangled,
You may know this, I don't know but for others reading this know.
Flaxseed Meal as a livestock feedstuff and when seen in studies done on livestock is not just the ground form of Flaxseed.

Flaxseed Meal has the oils removed much like Soybean Meal. Just like with Bean and Bean Meal there is a very big difference between Flaxseed and Flaxseed Meal.
The Protein, Fat, DM, TDN, NEm, NEg and so on is all different.



Quote

predominantly in the northern Great Plains and Canada

(Berglund and Zollinger, 2002). Traditionally, flax is
crushed to produce linseed oil for industrial applications,
and the resultant flaxseed (also called linseed) meal is
used as a protein supplement in livestock feeds.

 

[Spangled]

Spangled,
You may know this, I don't know but for others reading this know.
Flaxseed Meal as a livestock feedstuff and when seen in studies done on livestock is not just the ground form of Flaxseed.

Flaxseed Meal has the oils removed much like Soybean Meal. Just like with Bean and Bean Meal there is a very big difference between Flaxseed and Flaxseed Meal.
The Protein, Fat, DM, TDN, NEm, NEg and so on is all different.

For future readers of this thread: Yes, I know what flax seed meal is. And that it's different from flax seed (ground or whole). This can be verified by Post #8 in this thread where I asked this question:

Were all these detrimental effects from eating flaxseed or flaxseed meal or some other flaxseed (linseed) product altogether.

Yes, I forgot to put a question mark at the end of the sentence to indicate that the sentence was a question.

So future readers can read my previous posts with the knowledge that I knew the difference between flax seed (full fat) and flax seed meal (fat extracted). Flax seed oil is not only fed to animals; people sometimes take the gel pills or spoonfuls of flax seed oil if they buy Barlean's from the refrigerator section of the health food store. Why is it refrigerated? Because it goes rancid so easily or quickly.

In post #14, it was stated by Chris09:
"It really doesn't matter if the liver hemorrhages was or was not from oxidative rancidity, what does matter is that they got it from being fed Flaxseed. A simple test of the feed would have told them if the flaxseed was rancid."

Back to Spangled writing: For myself and my chickens, it does matter the reason for the hemorrhages. If the flax seed (in the study) (most likely ground so as to avoid the chickens picking it out of the feed) was ground, then it could be rancid within just seconds or minutes. Whole flax seeds don't go rancid nearly as quickly and actually have a shelf life of more than just a minute or two. No, I don't know how long after harvest before they go rancid; there are a lot of factors including humidity of storage, heat, ripeness at harvest, weather during harvest, etc. If I feed recently harvested whole flax seed, then there is less chance that it's rancid. Therefore, there is way less chance that I will be putting any sort of load on my chickens' livers and/or spleens if feeding whole flax seed, especially if I stick around the 1-2% level of inclusion. (The chickens in the study were eating feed with 10% inclusion.)

The authors of the study, Bean and Leeson, clearly state that the reasons for the hemorrhages is unknown. In the same sentence they mention oxidative rancidity of the flax. That's their words. Since they did the study, I'm going to go ahead and give them some credit for their conclusions. I think their conclusion is what matters.

The study I mentioned from 2006 does seem to indicate that an underlying existence of avian hepatitis E, sometimes subclinical, seems to allow the flax seed diet (in the case of this 2006 study by Agunos, Yu, et al.,) to exacerbate pre-existing liver and spleen problems in chickens fed 11% flax seed. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03079450600920976 And btw, if anyone is still out there, this avian hep E has been found in the US and also Spain, maybe other places also, but not only Ontario.

 

[popsicle]

When I was looking for "goat blocks" for my goats at the feed store, they said they didn't have any and that goats like the "flax lick" bucket for horses. Well, my goats wouldn't touch it, so I stuck it in the chicken run on its side. The chickens have slowly been pecking away at it. They seem to like it enough that I'm not sore over the purchase of a $30+ bucket that GOATS wouldn't eat. I doubt it's rancid yet, but will keep my eye on it.