Fois Gras

[Omniskies]

A disclaimer before ANYONE responds to this thread:

This topic is not meant to offend. If you have strong opinions against fois gras and absolutely nothing will change your mind please don't start a flame war.

For years I've been firmly opposed to fois gras. So when I saw a book at work called Fois Gras Wars that had just came out, I had to read it.

The author has done a disturbingly good job at showing the other half of the story. I'm about a hundred pages into the book and I'm now wondering how evil the production of fois gras is. Some of the highlights I was surprised to find out are:

Fois Gras isn't produced in small cages and ducks live a fairly normal life doing duck things out in _grass_ until they are around 10 weeks of age, where they then spend four weeks being hand fed. At that time around ten ducks are in a 4x10' pen together. (Ignoring the hand feeding, I can't think of a single other bird on our plates that can brag that it lived anywhere but a stuffy barn until being killed).

That the amount of ducks who go lame or suffer injuries during those four weeks is 1%.

That one handler takes care of "his" cages of ducks for the entire four weeks so they get to know him and are less stressed. And that the ducks become more relaxed through that time, going from spazzing out and huddling in the corner for the first week, to becoming familiar enough with their handler to become indifferent to his presence.

That the handler gets a bonus in his pay at the end of the feeding based on the health of the ducks and the quality of the livers. Stressed, sickly ducks won't make him as much money as healthy fat ducks. So even if we assume the evil animal-hater argument, he's still going to treat them well to get more money.

There are other things brought up in the book, too. What has me baffled is that, having read the arguments from both sides, I'm actually tempted to try raising two or three ducks for fois gras (don't kill me!).

This year I've spent a lot of time hand feeding babies that are sick, which involves taking a needle-less syringe and poking it straight down their throats then filling their crops with food, water, and medicine. Initially you can tell they're panicked by what is happening (a giant tube is being rammed down their throat and food is being squirted in, I'm sure that is panic-worthy

. But for babies that need it done often for whatever reason, they seem to mellow out after a while. I'm not saying that they like it or they start looking forward to the feedings. I'm saying they don't look like it bothers them. There's a slight struggle to get the mouth open and up, but after its over they go back to what they were doing without seeming worried.

After seeing that AND reading (the first part of) this book, I'm tempted to give it a shot.

Here are my questions to you:

IF the production of fois gras is considered humane (the birds don't mind the feedings and you felt comfortable feeding them) would you try it?

Do you know anyone who has raised a goose or duck for fois gras before? Personally. Not "I know someone who knew someone who..." Considering how controversial fois gras is, I'd rather first-hand stories only.

Have you ever tried fois gras? (Apparently Sonoma Farms sells their livers for $40 a pound...livers weigh 2lbs each. That's $80 per liver...I've never even seen fois gras on a menu. Ever.)

For anyone interested in reading this book, which I seriously, seriously recommend regardless of whether you want to try fois gras, a link to it is here: http://www.amazon.com/Foie-Gras-Wars-000-Year-Old-Delicacy/dp/1416556680/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I agree with the reviews. For the first 100 pages, the book has done an excellent job trying to show all sides of the argument. It starts off looking like a very anti-fois gras book, then builds as you are introduced to lawyers, vets, the struggles of the farm owners, and more.

Izzy, the owner of a large fois gras farm, made a lot of eerily good points. One of the best was that he will happily give a guided tour of his farm from start to finish and scolds chicken and turkey farmers for not allowing the same sort of freedom in seeing exactly where your food comes from.

To reiterate, this is NOT to start a flame war. I am genuinely curious about _level headed_ opinions - good and bad. It's all the better if you can keep your opinions based on things you've researched rather than just saying "I don't like it."

 

[MissPrissy]

I prefer the goose liver not duck. In general the ones protesting the production of the fatted livers do not consume animal products or meats. Many people assume the livers are harvested and the carcass is tossed away which is not true. Every part of the fowl is used and processed.

 

[Omniskies]

What is the difference besides size, Prissy? And are you talking about as fois gras or just in general?

Have you ever done this?

 

[MissPrissy]

It is the taste. Like the difference in a nice calves liver vs. a pork liver. I just cannot eat pork liver. Can't do it! But calves liver is very lovely when prepared properly. I also prefer chicken liver to duck liver. Just a taste preference for me in general. But, yet, a goose liver can be much larger than a duck.

 

[Trenary Duck Farm]

Our position is that while we do not participate in the production of fois gras, we do not challenge the right of others to do so. Our birds are raised in a free range environment where the density does not reach past 500 birds per acre.

So, which is worse?

1) Spending your life with 20 other birds in a 4' x 10' movable cage, politely called a chicken tractor.

2) Living in a poorly designed coop where the chickens can't get out but a predator can get in and have a captive feast.

3) Living in an environment where a predator (family dog) must be contained at all times or else a slaughter will take place.

4) Fois Gras.

 

[sparkles2307]

I dont see any harm in it, I mean, I would hope that you will use the entire bird, and not just harvest livers then be done with it. But I guess I have a differen opinion about a lot of animals that are raised for food, since a chunk of my family's income is derived from our raising beef cattle. I see nothing wrong with raising any animal for eating so long as it has clean water, fresh food, and room to roam. I think Foie Gras is much less offensive than the articles about how the chinese tourture dogs prior to killing becuase the adrenaline in the meat will make the consumer stronger...

 

[UncleHoot]

Sorry, I don't have much to really contribute, but thanks for sharing this. Everything I've read on the production of foie gras has been very negative. I don't like protesting against things, but I had made a personal choice never to eat it. Now you've got me re-thinking...

 

[Omniskies]

Trenary, that precise argument was brought up in the book. If ducks free ranging in a pasture for 10 weeks and force fed for two is considered inhumane, what about the broiler chicken or turkey that spends its entire life in a crowded barn, or a battery hen that spends a whole year in a small, empty cage with nothing to do?

Arguably, the duck has it the best since he at least gets ten weeks to actually be a duck before being tossed in a cage with nine others and forced to eat three times a day at set times without getting to munch when he feels like munching.

Sparkles, it would definitely be to use the entire duck. I've never eaten fois gras, and just from the prices you can bet I probably will never, ever order it in a restaurant. While reading this book, I'm seriously considering trying it on two to three ducks.

That would also make me feel more comfortable when arguing for, against, or indifferently about fois gras. "I've heard such-and-such from PETA" doesn't hold a lot of sway with me. While they bring light to a lot of really awful things, and have done a lot to benefit animals, they tend to be -slightly- ah...over enthusiastic about what is considered evil? I have no doubt that if I went up to someone in PETA and said I raised animals to steal their eggs and eat their babies (when I wasn't tearing families apart by selling ducklings), I'd be considered no better than someone who comes home and beats their dog every night.

Unfortunately, that sort of fanaticism has made me leery about what to trust. You _know_ they have an agenda, you _know_ that agenda is going to color what they see, and you _know_ there is absolutely no way they will even try to pretend to be objective.

So far 90% of the complaints against fois gras that I have seen online are either from PETA or from people PETA has talked to.

Today while reading the book, a fascinating poll came up. An animal activists group wrote up a poll question to ask unbiased people on the streets to get their opinion of whether or not fois gras should be produced.

The question assumed they didn't know what fois gras was (which is reasonable), but described it as an "expensive" and highbrow meal that is made by forcing a metal pipe down a duck's neck and force feeding it until its liver has swelled to ten times the natural size. It went on to say that unnamed European countries had already banned its production, and California was in the process of doing so.

While that's all true, the way it was presented made it sound like it was only available to the wealthy by torturing an animal, and that countries were already banning it (most places are banning _making_ fois gras, but its still legal to buy it elsewhere and sell it in restaurants...sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?).

 

[sparkles2307]

I guess force feeding bothers me, I would look into seeing if there was a feeding regimen to go on using higher fat grains to acheive a near-same end result? In ancient times, barley was few to gladiators because it was fatty and built fat around organs/arteries to provide protection in case of injury. I am looking at different grains that are readilly available in our area and the benefits of adding small amounts to our chooks feed in order to acheive the end result that I want.

 

[CityChicker]

Well, the fact of the matter is- Foie Gras is produced differently at different farms. Some farms are more ethical than others (as with anything). Different people have different ideas of what is "ethical" and what isn't.

I have researched Foie Gras *extensively* as I am a waterfowl breeder. Beyond a shadow of doubt in my mind, at many (if not most) farms that produce Foie Gras- the birds are absolutely tortured. The scenario described in the first post is the exception, not the rule. I have researched I think nearly all of the farms that produce Foie Gras. I have seen the pictures/videos and read all the information there is on the subject. Most do not live the life described above.

Now with all that said, it is not up to me to decide what is right for anyone else. I don't think we should necessarily legislate what people eat (recognizing that Foie Gras production has been made illegal in *many* places).

I can only make decisions for myself. There are probably plenty of factory produced animals and animal products (eggs for instance) that involve as much, if not more, suffering than Foie Gras. Isn't that why many of us are here on BYC? because we want to raise our own food more ethically and know how it is produced?

Anyway, those are my thoughts in a nutshell. I don't want to get into a debate though since this subject seems to illicit strong emotions. It is up to each person to do their own research and make their own choices.