Fois Gras

[Judy]

Please see the OP's disclaimer

This topic is not meant to offend. If you have strong opinions against fois gras and absolutely nothing will change your mind please don't start a flame war.​

 

[NHN]

Please see the OP's disclaimer

This topic is not meant to offend. If you have strong opinions against fois gras and absolutely nothing will change your mind please don't start a flame war.​

 

[cozycritters]

I was watching something on TV, where they actually showed the ducks (in that case) being fed with a funnel, etc... and you know what? It reminded me of how my ducks stuff themselves anyway... They can barely walk with how they stuff their crops, trying to keep up with my goose

. Mine would stuff themselves with grain all day and night if they had the option

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

i love it, dont have a problem with the method of production and seriously dont understand why everyone is all worked up. i've seen both sides of the argument, have seen the farms and raise geese myself. my geese are fat and happy and would be fatter and happier if i gave them all the bagged feed they could eat - but i free range 'em mostly b/c free rangin' in 'free.'

i know that you can order the machines for the feeding from europe and one of my pals is getting one. i personally cant wait to go to their farm for dinner when its ready.

my experience is that the folks who are all worked up **except for BYC-ers*** have very little real world farming experience. thats my $0.02 and i have a bottle of lovely red wine ready for my humanely raised fois gras dinner at my friend's farm.

 

[cicene mete]

Everyone should be aware that force-feeding is illegal in California and in many counties and municipalities. It is also illegal in most of Europe (not France, obviously), in Israel, in Turkey, and in a number of other places, so check your local laws.

I think part of the controversy is not just the force-feeding, but artificially enlarged liver and the potential suffering it may cause. Of course, Cornish X are raised all the time, and we all know that bizarre effects of their rapid growth.

I'm not sure how I feel about an individual been trying to do it humanely. I guess I'd have to know more about it.

 

[chooniecat]

I have farming experience (i do eat meat)and love MY meat humanely treated. also was raised with cigarettes and find them highly offensive. guess i just know right from wrong. fois gras is unessesary not to mention ,yes, for a short time, very inhumane. treat others(i consider critters others)as you would like to be treated.

 

[Omniskies]

Huge, huge thanks to everyonre for keeping things civil here. I was expecting a few insightful replies then seeing the thread locked because a few people spoiled it for the rest of us.

To reply to everything (as I remember it...):

I know the practices I posted up are not how things are done in every fois gras farm. But it's a moot point to present the argument that it _can_ be done inhumanely by pointing out that there are idiots out there who beat and bludgeon the birds while tearing their throats out. I'm not saying we should dismiss abuse - just that fois gras production done with the bird's safety and health in mind isn't any more evil than what happens to broiler chickens.

Condemning the sins of fois gras while just being opposed to broiler farming is beginning to look a bit silly.

At least from what I'm reading. Again, I've never raised fois gras, and this is a very new opinion.

Cicene, Israel has banned the _production_ of fois gras, but not serving it in restaurants. As one fois gras farmer said "They didn't save a single duck." It's like banning coccain but still making it ok to import and use. How does that change anything?

California has given fois gras farmers until 2012 to come up with a "more ethical" way of producing fois gras. From what anyone can tell, the more ethical way is producing fois gras without force feeding the birds in the first place - something no one has discovered in the thousands of years fois gras has been considered a delicacy.

All of that is discussed in the book. If you're interested in knowing more about it then the book is a wealth of information(and I wholeheartedly support knowing more about _any_ animal production process, from fish to dairy cows).

NHN, someone already made a point similar to the one I'm going to make. What makes the production of fois gras any more inhumane than raising broiler chickens, broadbreasted turkeys, or squab? Broilers spend their entire lives trying not to die of a heart attack while plagued with feeling starved for food constantly. If you've ever watched broiler chickens, they will actually sit in front of their food dish without the energy to leave it and eat. I've caught broilers I free ranged not even going up into their pen at night because they found a bag of spilled feed and sat by it _in the dark_ because eating was more important than getting to safety.

Broiler farms actually have to "run the chickens" to keep them moving so they can stay alive _just_ long enough to be killed. Is knowingly raising a bird for 8-10 weeks better than hand feeding a duck or goose for two weeks after 8-10 weeks of being a free range duck?

With my limited knowledge, right now raising broilers doesn't look any worse than the proper management of fois gras.

As for using barely to fatten the ducks. I wasn't able to find any cases of naturally produced fois gras. The closest I could find was a company who was trying it out and was producing a larger liver - but not actual fois gras.

I was able to find this from a website that was kinda entertaining while looking up the barely/fois gras thing:

There's no better example of that than Holly Cheever, a

veterinarian who sometimes consults for one anti-foie group, Farm Sanctuary, as well as People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. When she visited Hudson Valley, she didn't see the kind of unhealthy, cruelly treated birds she had expected. Her reaction? She says the farmers were hiding those ducks from her and that they do the same for any other visitors, like Caro or the Village Voice's Sarah DiGregorio, who went there for a recent article and came away convinced the ducks were not being tortured -- far from it, in fact.

With that kind of attitude, Holly Cheever could easily get a job at the CIA analyzing Iran's nuclear program. Just change some words around:

When she visited [Iran], she didn't see the kind of [program] she had expected. Her reaction? She says the [Iranians] were hiding [the weapons grade plutonium] from her and that they do the same for any other visitors.

Viola, and just like that, Holly Cheever becomes a Government propagandist.​

 

[bucketgirl]

This is the most fascinating and informative thing I've seen on fois gras:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_barber_s_surprising_foie_gras_parable.html

This chef, Dan Barber, tells the story of a fois gras farmer he visited in Spain. It is an incredible story and was an inspiration to me as far as how I want my meat birds to live for their short lives.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Broiler farms actually have to "run the chickens" to keep them moving so they can stay alive _just_ long enough to be killed. Is knowingly raising a bird for 8-10 weeks better than hand feeding a duck or goose for two weeks after 8-10 weeks of being a free range duck?

This isn't true... they don't go into the broiler houses at all except to collect the dead.... and check on everyone..... With the exception of catch day, the chickens are not so much even spooked as any kind of "running" will stress them and make them lose weight. The birds are raised for 42 days not 7-8 weeks making it easier to cope with their conditions compared to 12 weeks. But to answer your question.... no it does not. But this is why many of us here on BYC raise are own meat.... either it be fois gras or a broiler.... if you did it, you know how humane it was. But to support large industries that do it? I don't think so... The quality of life is just not there... this not just effects the ethics of it but the taste as well. My broilers taste better than the ones in the store... there is no comparison.... wouldn't your fois gras taste better than the livers in the store?

What makes the production of fois gras any more inhumane than raising broiler chickens, broadbreasted turkeys, or squab?

It doesn't... which is why so many here oppose fois gras. This is why many don't eat it, nor raise it. My big thing is veal, could never support such an industry. I've been in veal barns with over 500 head of calfs and it's horrible. Nothing against the farmer though... the bond he had between the calves was amazing. They knew him by sight and smell.... also by his voice. I started to walk down the rows to look at the bunks of calves and every one of them freaked out pulling on their chains and baying loudly. The farmer told me to come out and he went in and talked softly as he walked down the rows touching the calves.... everyone of them relaxed.

SO the issue, like stated, is not to question the love of this farming but the ethics of it. As long as there is a demand for meat... and it's by-products... there will always be inhumane ways to do it. For one the inhumane way is almost always cheaper... Making it tough on producers to make it.

Broilers spend their entire lives trying not to die of a heart attack while plagued with feeling starved for food constantly

Is this pertaining to broilers raised in confinement? If so... rarely do these die of heart-attacks. Because unlike "backyard farmers" these birds aren't processed at 7-8 weeks.... but a mere 42 days. Heart attacks claim less then 4% of deaths in most chicken houses. Broilers in a commercial production are never starved... they eat 24/7 for 42 days. Some farms give them a few hours of rest but not all of them. Most of us "backyard farmers" starve our broilers so we can get that extra 2 lbs on them by raising them to 8 weeks. This is done by feeding 12 on and 12 offf.... making it look like the birds are being starved... but it's only preventing the heart attacks.

If you've ever watched broiler chickens, they will actually sit in front of their food dish without the energy to leave it and eat

Commercial ones will do this.... pastured poultry, if raised on pasture at a young age, will venture for their food and amazingly enough they find plenty of bugs to keep them active. It's all in the production practices... I will not support something I stand so strongly against. Wether it be veal, eggs, broilers, turkey, squab, or fois gras/ duck I will not support it. There are options to every production practice... but first in order for these to change.... peoples palates must change too. Because the veal and fois gras I oppose has such a succulent taste that keeps people coming back. If you could keep the taste but change the practices you would be a mult-millionare... but unfourtanatly your altering the physical state of their genetics of what these animals are bred to do... calves aren't meant to be in a crate anymore than a duck that is force fed....

Now before anyone goes off and says that broilers are some freak of nature of the chicken world... stop... because this is one example how we genetically made (by selective breeding) a chicken that can withstand confinement.... if the surrondings are right... the broilers become lazy and don't want to move making it easier for the producers to keep the birds calm and relaxed.... If you take the same bird and change the environment by putting them on pasture, these birds surpase their original intention and become an amazing example of how it can be done more humanly without giving up the economics of it all. It becomes productive to the farmer.... and humane to the animal. It's taken us 70 or so years to figure this out but now we know. Fois gras will soon follow along with veal... it just takes time. With our technology and smart people of this world... someones bound to figure it out.

Until then... I stay away from it.​

 

[cmcgoun]

Edited to remove reply to removed post.