Food Mills

[jjaazzy]

Depending on what it is, the by-product would be great for composting and soil amendment if you have a garden! As for the chickens, I'm sure they would enjoy scratching and pecking through it, too, but I have no idea how much they would eat over several days.

Thank you JAMarlow, there is a local craft brewery, I think I will see if they are still there and ask what they are doing with the spent grains. They would love those.

 

[jjaazzy]

A few threads that discuss feed storage ideas:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...eas-to-protect-large-amounts-of-food.1508396/

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/old-fridge-for-feed-storage-good-or-bad-idea.1461874/

Thanks looked at both, the refrigerator Idea is a cleaver one, I reached out to the poster to see how it worked out with the summer humidity. I don't know what other states humidity is like. I then found where she said it worked well for her. But down here I think for me to get it milled I have to buy a ton which is 40 bags. which will last me somewhere around a month. I will call the mill this week and see what they have to say. It would be nice to just whip up some pellets to throw out as a filler, they eat all the time.

 

[NatJ]

My initial thought was to grind down my left over hay as a base and add to it that may still be an option.

You can just throw the leftover hay where the chickens can get to it. They will probably scratch through and eat some.

But since hay is just dried plants, and drying does not increase the nutrients, it will not be any better for them than having free access to the same kinds of plants as they are growing.

It would be nice to just whip up some pellets to throw out as a filler, they eat all the time.

Chickens typically eat all the time because that works better than eating a few big meals.
Chickens typically do not eat more food than they need.
They do not just need a certain number of pounds or cups of food. They need enough calories, enough protein, the right balance of vitamins and minerals.

You have said you don't want to feed other things to your growing chicks-- good.
But a hen that lays an egg every day or so has nutritional needs similar to a mammal that is pregnant or producing milk. Human, cow, pig, dog, it doesn't matter-- they all need more food, and especially more protein, when pregnant/nursing. But you also need to give the right kind of food. Hay for the dog or meat for the cow will not work right.

I think you might not be considering how much the hens really need each day, to produce eggs. Each hen needs enough food to keep her alive and healthy, and enough to produce an entire egg, and some more because no digestive system is completely efficient, every single day.

If you butcher some hens and find enormous amounts of fat, that would mean they are eating "too much"-- but that usually means too many calories relative to the protein, vitamins, and minerals. Most cheap things you can offer them will lead to more fat but not more production, and will not really decrease the amount of commercial feed they need to eat.

Do you have any source of cheap protein? I'm thinking of meat, fish, dairy, maybe soybeans or other beans. You already mentioned eggs, but all of the other ideas you've discussed so far are low on protein. So protein is the biggest issue you will be running into.

Some people raise various kinds of bugs or worms, but that is probably not easy on the scale you need. Letting the chickens scratch through any available compost will let them harvest some worms for themselves, and is the only low-labor way I know of to provide them. (If you add your hay to the free-range area, what the chickens do not eat may eventually feed some worms, which could provide a small benefit. Letting the chicken bedding compost and provide worm food, and then letting the chickens eat the worms, is also a good idea, but again probably not enough to make a big difference.)

 

[U_Stormcrow]

OK, Davie FL is down by Pembroke Pines and Sunrise - I don't know any local mills in the area. Yes, you are wet, and hot, pretty much all the time. I think that's USDA growing zone 10, almost 11? That takes a lot of traditionally "winter" crops, and numerous good grasses completely out of the realm of possibility.

AND apoologies for saying straw earlier, I meant hay, but neither is great nutrition - straw obviously much less - just depends on what the hay was made from and when it was harvested.Spent brewers grains are an excellent cource of proteins and useful enzymes for making other grains more bioavailable. Moderately high fiber, and only a bit high in fats. Relatively low energy, of course, as the carbs have largely been extracted and converted as part of the brewing process.

Exact nutrition depend upon which grains were used in making the wort, at what temperatures, and with which adjuncts. An all 6-row malt for an imperial stout has a different character than a 2-row and rice malt for a helles munich. The spent grains are usually sold wet, which will mold pretty fast (NOT good eats!) if you don't have a way to dry them.

For myself, I stretch my feed with a biodiverse polyculture - which is to say I've deliberately planted my grounds with a host of plant life, not in cultivated stands, with the goal of ensuring I have options available to my birds to range on throughout most of the year. I'm trying to ensure they have at least one grass, one small grain, and one legume available most of the time. I have a number of grasses planted (scribner's panic grass does well for me, but also orchard grass, st aug, fescues, perennial ryes), am struggling to establish various grains and near grains such as sorghum, amaranth, millet, teff, sorrel, sudangrass, flaxes (harder now that the birds gobble up the seed almost as rapidly as it establishes), and a number of legumes (including four varietes of clover now and a small amount of alfalfa), plus a large number of herbs and forbs. To keep fats down, I have deliberately not planted some of the concentrated fat seed sources, like sunflower. During peak season, it bends my feed bill 30-35% - we started that a couple weeks back, and rain permitting, it will continue this way till late fall.

AT 50# a day, your flock sounds to be about 3x the size of mine - I'd guess you are somewhere near 200 birds? But dealing with roughly the same amount of land - my cleared pasture is just under 2A, thought they also range the surrounding woodline. Your soil quality will determine whether the grounds can support that load or not - my grounds will support an flock much larger, so my plantings continue to colonive my clay soils and self propogate - if you have very poor soils down there (and much of the area is), you may need more intensive farming methods than I use.

In any case, I reccomend checking out what you can get as cast offs/by products from other facilities - particularly your local brewer. When you plant, within the limits of your soils and climate, I'd recommend trying for plants that are high value and not produced at commercial scale - you will never compete with a midwestern corn (which is borderline anyways) farmer, and you aren't well suited for wheat production, but may do well with some of the smaller grains as I am trying to do.

Teff, Sorghum (if its not too wet), and Sorghum/Sudangrass hybrids should do well for you. I really struggle with Crimson clover - we get a bit cold at times, but it should perform better for you. Some of the other clovers will do well. I can't provide specific recommendations in the pulses, none do well for me. Oh, I've been pretty pleased with fenugreek as well - the seeds are one of the better plant methionine sources, and the plant itself - much like oregano - tolerates mediterannean climates well.

Check with your local extension office - they should have good ideas as to what is being used as cover crops locally, and sourcing - then select from those with an eye to ensuring they have different periods in which they come into their prime in order to extend your "harvest".

 

[jjaazzy]

OK, Davie FL is down by Pembroke Pines and Sunrise - I don't know any local mills in the area. Yes, you are wet, and hot, pretty much all the time. I think that's USDA growing zone 10, almost 11? That takes a lot of traditionally "winter" crops, and numerous good grasses completely out of the realm of possibility.

AND apoologies for saying straw earlier, I meant hay, but neither is great nutrition - straw obviously much less - just depends on what the hay was made from and when it was harvested.Spent brewers grains are an excellent cource of proteins and useful enzymes for making other grains more bioavailable. Moderately high fiber, and only a bit high in fats. Relatively low energy, of course, as the carbs have largely been extracted and converted as part of the brewing process.

Exact nutrition depend upon which grains were used in making the wort, at what temperatures, and with which adjuncts. An all 6-row malt for an imperial stout has a different character than a 2-row and rice malt for a helles munich. The spent grains are usually sold wet, which will mold pretty fast (NOT good eats!) if you don't have a way to dry them.

For myself, I stretch my feed with a biodiverse polyculture - which is to say I've deliberately planted my grounds with a host of plant life, not in cultivated stands, with the goal of ensuring I have options available to my birds to range on throughout most of the year. I'm trying to ensure they have at least one grass, one small grain, and one legume available most of the time. I have a number of grasses planted (scribner's panic grass does well for me, but also orchard grass, st aug, fescues, perennial ryes), am struggling to establish various grains and near grains such as sorghum, amaranth, millet, teff, sorrel, sudangrass, flaxes (harder now that the birds gobble up the seed almost as rapidly as it establishes), and a number of legumes (including four varietes of clover now and a small amount of alfalfa), plus a large number of herbs and forbs. To keep fats down, I have deliberately not planted some of the concentrated fat seed sources, like sunflower. During peak season, it bends my feed bill 30-35% - we started that a couple weeks back, and rain permitting, it will continue this way till late fall.

AT 50# a day, your flock sounds to be about 3x the size of mine - I'd guess you are somewhere near 200 birds? But dealing with roughly the same amount of land - my cleared pasture is just under 2A, thought they also range the surrounding woodline. Your soil quality will determine whether the grounds can support that load or not - my grounds will support an flock much larger, so my plantings continue to colonive my clay soils and self propogate - if you have very poor soils down there (and much of the area is), you may need more intensive farming methods than I use.

In any case, I reccomend checking out what you can get as cast offs/by products from other facilities - particularly your local brewer. When you plant, within the limits of your soils and climate, I'd recommend trying for plants that are high value and not produced at commercial scale - you will never compete with a midwestern corn (which is borderline anyways) farmer, and you aren't well suited for wheat production, but may do well with some of the smaller grains as I am trying to do.

Teff, Sorghum (if its not too wet), and Sorghum/Sudangrass hybrids should do well for you. I really struggle with Crimson clover - we get a bit cold at times, but it should perform better for you. Some of the other clovers will do well. I can't provide specific recommendations in the pulses, none do well for me. Oh, I've been pretty pleased with fenugreek as well - the seeds are one of the better plant methionine sources, and the plant itself - much like oregano - tolerates mediterannean climates well.

Check with your local extension office - they should have good ideas as to what is being used as cover crops locally, and sourcing - then select from those with an eye to ensuring they have different periods in which they come into their prime in order to extend your "harvest".

OK, Davie FL is down by Pembroke Pines and Sunrise - I don't know any local mills in the area. Yes, you are wet, and hot, pretty much all the time. I think that's USDA growing zone 10, almost 11? That takes a lot of traditionally "winter" crops, and numerous good grasses completely out of the realm of possibility.

AND apoologies for saying straw earlier, I meant hay, but neither is great nutrition - straw obviously much less - just depends on what the hay was made from and when it was harvested.Spent brewers grains are an excellent cource of proteins and useful enzymes for making other grains more bioavailable. Moderately high fiber, and only a bit high in fats. Relatively low energy, of course, as the carbs have largely been extracted and converted as part of the brewing process.

Exact nutrition depend upon which grains were used in making the wort, at what temperatures, and with which adjuncts. An all 6-row malt for an imperial stout has a different character than a 2-row and rice malt for a helles munich. The spent grains are usually sold wet, which will mold pretty fast (NOT good eats!) if you don't have a way to dry them.

For myself, I stretch my feed with a biodiverse polyculture - which is to say I've deliberately planted my grounds with a host of plant life, not in cultivated stands, with the goal of ensuring I have options available to my birds to range on throughout most of the year. I'm trying to ensure they have at least one grass, one small grain, and one legume available most of the time. I have a number of grasses planted (scribner's panic grass does well for me, but also orchard grass, st aug, fescues, perennial ryes), am struggling to establish various grains and near grains such as sorghum, amaranth, millet, teff, sorrel, sudangrass, flaxes (harder now that the birds gobble up the seed almost as rapidly as it establishes), and a number of legumes (including four varietes of clover now and a small amount of alfalfa), plus a large number of herbs and forbs. To keep fats down, I have deliberately not planted some of the concentrated fat seed sources, like sunflower. During peak season, it bends my feed bill 30-35% - we started that a couple weeks back, and rain permitting, it will continue this way till late fall.

AT 50# a day, your flock sounds to be about 3x the size of mine - I'd guess you are somewhere near 200 birds? But dealing with roughly the same amount of land - my cleared pasture is just under 2A, thought they also range the surrounding woodline. Your soil quality will determine whether the grounds can support that load or not - my grounds will support an flock much larger, so my plantings continue to colonive my clay soils and self propogate - if you have very poor soils down there (and much of the area is), you may need more intensive farming methods than I use.

In any case, I reccomend checking out what you can get as cast offs/by products from other facilities - particularly your local brewer. When you plant, within the limits of your soils and climate, I'd recommend trying for plants that are high value and not produced at commercial scale - you will never compete with a midwestern corn (which is borderline anyways) farmer, and you aren't well suited for wheat production, but may do well with some of the smaller grains as I am trying to do.

Teff, Sorghum (if its not too wet), and Sorghum/Sudangrass hybrids should do well for you. I really struggle with Crimson clover - we get a bit cold at times, but it should perform better for you. Some of the other clovers will do well. I can't provide specific recommendations in the pulses, none do well for me. Oh, I've been pretty pleased with fenugreek as well - the seeds are one of the better plant methionine sources, and the plant itself - much like oregano - tolerates mediterannean climates well.

Check with your local extension office - they should have good ideas as to what is being used as cover crops locally, and sourcing - then select from those with an eye to ensuring they have different periods in which they come into their prime in order to extend your "harvest".

U-Stormcrow thank you for the very informative post. You are right, Florida is just too hot for most food production type crops, we plant opposite the rest of the country, winter spring is when people try and grow veggies, and such and it's a battle to get anything with the fungus, bugs, and everything else. I think going to the Extension office is a great idea. Infact starting today in Florida they are giving seeds away at the extension offices all throughout the state if you were not aware of that. I would like to plant some clover, I had that in a pasture years ago for the horses, I didn't plant it but someone else did for the cattle. I tried years ago to plant some pasture grass I ordered. None of it came up. Pretty sure I had something to do with its failure. I planted some Perennial Peanut kept the horses off for 2 months on that pasture and they got to it and just destroyed it. It was doing so well spreading and flowering, very pretty little yellow flowers. I hope it comes back,. Sounds like you can grow so many thing in the Pan handle. I know you get hot there, my cousin lives in Tally. July is no joke. But that's why everything is so green.
My closest mill is Okeechobee I think and that is about 2 hours drive one direction. It just doesn't make financial sense especially now with gas almost 5.00 per gallon. As I said earlier, we will get through this I'm just trying to be proactive. Thanks again for your time and very informative post.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

U-Stormcrow thank you for the very informative post. You are right, Florida is just too hot for most food production type crops, we plant opposite the rest of the country, winter spring is when people try and grow veggies, and such and it's a battle to get anything with the fungus, bugs, and everything else. I think going to the Extension office is a great idea. Infact starting today in Florida they are giving seeds away at the extension offices all throughout the state if you were not aware of that. I would like to plant some clover, I had that in a pasture years ago for the horses, I didn't plant it but someone else did for the cattle. I tried years ago to plant some pasture grass I ordered. None of it came up. Pretty sure I had something to do with its failure. I planted some Perennial Peanut kept the horses off for 2 months on that pasture and they got to it and just destroyed it. It was doing so well spreading and flowering, very pretty little yellow flowers. I hope it comes back,. Sounds like you can grow so many thing in the Pan handle. I know you get hot there, my cousin lives in Tally. July is no joke. But that's why everything is so green.
My closest mill is Okeechobee I think and that is about 2 hours drive one direction. It just doesn't make financial sense especially now with gas almost 5.00 per gallon. As I said earlier, we will get through this I'm just trying to be proactive. Thanks again for your time and very informative post.

Happy to share my failings with some thoughts as to why, so others need not repeat them - and perhaps a few can find successes with different inital assumptions.

Look to your clovers - which I do recommend - for their growing zones and to ensure they don't come into season in a way that completely overlaps. My crimson clover isn't as cold tolerant as my white, yellow, or subterranean varieties, for instance - and all of them come into season in staggered fashion.

Orchard grass needs shade, and more cold than you get - not a good choice, but some of the prarie grasses will likely work for you, as they do for me - though wet will be some concern, we average about 1" per week, and its not caused the rots and water logging I've expected (but I am also up on "a hill" - which may make all the difference here).

 

[jjaazzy]

Happy to share my failings with some thoughts as to why, so others need not repeat them - and perhaps a few can find successes with different inital assumptions.

Look to your clovers - which I do recommend - for their growing zones and to ensure they don't come into season in a way that completely overlaps. My crimson clover isn't as cold tolerant as my white, yellow, or subterranean varieties, for instance - and all of them come into season in staggered fashion.

Orchard grass needs shade, and more cold than you get - not a good choice, but some of the prarie grasses will likely work for you, as they do for me - though wet will be some concern, we average about 1" per week, and its not caused the rots and water logging I've expected (but I am also up on "a hill" - which may make all the difference here).

Everyone has their unique growing even within the same zone, same neighborhood, different parts of the property. Found that growing Orchids, sometimes moving them 1 foot makes all the difference. We had a decent winter with mild temps, but long gone are the freezes we use to get 15 plus years ago, it just doesn't happen. Now we can get torrential rains that flood my fields over a foot deep. Anyway, thank you.

 

[jjaazzy]

You can just throw the leftover hay where the chickens can get to it. They will probably scratch through and eat some.

But since hay is just dried plants, and drying does not increase the nutrients, it will not be any better for them than having free access to the same kinds of plants as they are growing.


Chickens typically eat all the time because that works better than eating a few big meals.
Chickens typically do not eat more food than they need.
They do not just need a certain number of pounds or cups of food. They need enough calories, enough protein, the right balance of vitamins and minerals.

You have said you don't want to feed other things to your growing chicks-- good.
But a hen that lays an egg every day or so has nutritional needs similar to a mammal that is pregnant or producing milk. Human, cow, pig, dog, it doesn't matter-- they all need more food, and especially more protein, when pregnant/nursing. But you also need to give the right kind of food. Hay for the dog or meat for the cow will not work right.

I think you might not be considering how much the hens really need each day, to produce eggs. Each hen needs enough food to keep her alive and healthy, and enough to produce an entire egg, and some more because no digestive system is completely efficient, every single day.

If you butcher some hens and find enormous amounts of fat, that would mean they are eating "too much"-- but that usually means too many calories relative to the protein, vitamins, and minerals. Most cheap things you can offer them will lead to more fat but not more production, and will not really decrease the amount of commercial feed they need to eat.

Do you have any source of cheap protein? I'm thinking of meat, fish, dairy, maybe soybeans or other beans. You already mentioned eggs, but all of the other ideas you've discussed so far are low on protein. So protein is the biggest issue you will be running into.

Some people raise various kinds of bugs or worms, but that is probably not easy on the scale you need. Letting the chickens scratch through any available compost will let them harvest some worms for themselves, and is the only low-labor way I know of to provide them. (If you add your hay to the free-range area, what the chickens do not eat may eventually feed some worms, which could provide a small benefit. Letting the chicken bedding compost and provide worm food, and then letting the chickens eat the worms, is also a good idea, but again probably not enough to make a big difference.)

Thanks, chickens have free choice to good commercial feed and I will not discontinue that. I read somewhere that higher protein is not good with chickens, that it is not needed. I can't remember where I read/heard that, but it was from a University study. But that is why I don't switch out to a higher protein. Sometimes I will bet a bag and mix it in to up them for a bit, But, the bulk of the feed is a balance diet with calcium thrown in as needed. If they need it they eat it, if not they leave it alone. My birds are grown out and sold and some stay to lay eggs and then are sold. The ones that stay are my breeding flocks and girls I started out with that may or may not still be laying. I raised healthy Turkeys on Chick feed and Layer pellet, they didn't get the game bird high protein, they thrived and are thriving well. First batch of Poults did get the Game bird but didn't repeat it with the following hatches. Yes I have see the fat pockets you speak of, these people never stop eating. I call animals people....... Anyway..... I am going to call the mill see where they are at with pricing.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thanks, chickens have free choice to good commercial feed and I will not discontinue that. I read somewhere that higher protein is not good with chickens, that it is not needed. I can't remember where I read/heard that, but it was from a University study. But that is why I don't switch out to a higher protein. Sometimes I will bet a bag and mix it in to up them for a bit, But, the bulk of the feed is a balance diet with calcium thrown in as needed. If they need it they eat it, if not they leave it alone. My birds are grown out and sold and some stay to lay eggs and then are sold. The ones that stay are my breeding flocks and girls I started out with that may or may not still be laying. I raised healthy Turkeys on Chick feed and Layer pellet, they didn't get the game bird high protein, they thrived and are thriving well. First batch of Poults did get the Game bird but didn't repeat it with the following hatches. Yes I have see the fat pockets you speak of, these people never stop eating. I call animals people....... Anyway..... I am going to call the mill see where they are at with pricing.

Most of us here on BYC are fond of somewhat higher protein levels than the minimums offered by layer feed - self included - and I can cite numerous studies in support of that position. But most of us have much smaller flocks and differing end goals for them. As I've pointed out many times when linking those studies, though the improved diet is better for our birds' long term health and overall condition, it is NOT cost effective. For people with four to ten mixed age, breed, etc birds in the backyard, the price differences don't add up to much, and are likely worth it to them and the pets in their vanity flocks. For people with special goals (such as my culling project) they may be worth it, but for scale production? The benefits don't currently exceed costs.

 

[Jaime918]

NatJ thank you nicely said, and agree with everything you stated and we have reduced in years past. And aggressively went after the food waste as we had a rodent situation. That is on going maintence. Birds free range on 2 acres daily and have access to mulch piles, green grass and bugs (aka Florida). We have reduced the waste, reduced the roosters. You did spark a thought of restaurant waste, which I thought about before but didn't follow up on it. I know someone with a juice bar. I don't know if I want to approach them or not it is business relationship my husband has, I think that is why I didn't go after it before. I don't want to turn property into a stinky dump of old garbage. That's not worth it to me. Do you know if the by product of making beer has waste that could be used for chickens? I might look into that. Thank you for a well written post with positive things to say.

Speaking of restaurant waste, ask local schools as well. Our local elementary is starting to collect for our local conservatory here because as one employee stated "They we're sick of seeing kids take 1 bite of an apple and throw it away"