Foraging And Feed Effeciency Comparing Breeds

[maranfarmer563]

Wow 12 is one old hen,I have an old grey hen grandma think she's 7

 

[Arielle]

Good question. most of my birds I have hatched myself, but the parent stock was given to me, or came from a hatchery. I had a leghorn cross and an andulusian hybrid layer and both of were egg laying machines but as soon as they started molting they would become pale and thin, even though they contenued to lay. I have also had more lice problems with them as well. games are probably the best for all around thriftyness and are the best foragers, but they are more seasonal layers.

yes, I have the same thoughts. I do like the sexlink roosters. they are large and forage so much more then the cornish meat birds and there so much more flavorfull!

Like most of us, you started with this and that, and over time figuring out which birds keep your interest. IMO a hen that is both laying AND molting at the same time needs the greatest amount of dense nutrients. Which translates to bagged feed, or other formulated feed to meet her needs. I'm sounding like its a bad thing and I dont mean that; rather a statement of fact. A hen that can molt and lay at the same time is a treasure.

I too have noticed some birds have more of a lice problem than others. ANd they are in the same pen. Whether this means I need to handle the pests differently or just cull the affected birds is still a question I have.

5 roosters butchered last weekend; and one went into the oven. THe flesh was surprizingly soft. A young rooster for sure, less than 4-5 months. ANd less on the flavor than the older 1 year roosters. Ahh the trade offs. lol

 

[Arielle]

My game take dust baths and I haven't had lice problems. I am having hawk problems this week. Lost one of my favorite broodys, "half tail", her chicks are almost grown.

SOunds like those chicks that are almost grown are worth saving from such a good hen. Not only her age, but the years of evading predators and diseases.

 

[maranfarmer563]

One of her chicks is the only grey cockerel raised this year. He is a special guy and gets a pinch of grain while I'm feeding the goats

 

[mymilliefleur]

what breeds were the roosters you butchered, arielle?

the andulusian cross is the only hen I know for shore was laying and molting at the same time. I separated her and fed her a special ration with extra protein and also a little catfood. last year she only molted a little and never finshed. this year she stoped laying a short time after I got her health back up and now she is molting slowly. the other hen always had a slowness about her and always seemed thin to me. it may have had to do with how they were raised. I kept them in a large hoop house instead of in chicken tractors with part time free ranging like I do now.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote: Decisions, decisions

I have thought of Australorps repeatedly.....and Buckeyes too......and Cornish and Marans, lol. I finally have some mutts for eggs but am still mulling over the meat bird ideas~ had a few Cornish Cross that we purchased, and while not bad to raise, not a sustainable breed (as you know!). There's a show I want to attend in about a week so I'm hoping to see some breeds that interest me "in the flesh"

Cheers, M

 

[gjensen]

There is no ideal super bird, so it is finding what suits our "production model" best. We still will never find "best", or "best" will be a moving target. "Best" usually amounts to preference, and is rarely purely objective.

When I skim through discussions of this sort, I tend to see a lot of statements that are based on impressions. This breed, that breed this, etc. With experience we find it is less to do about breed, and more to do about strain. To say this breed is not thrifty is painting with a broad brush. Some strains are and some are not. Then some breeds do not have particularly broad gene pools so what you have is what I have. Often what we purchase does not represent a breed well. Maybe it does, but we should be careful about generalizations. We do not want to discourage another from a selection that might have been a good choice for them. I rarely consider remarks on a breed that were purchased from a hatchery, but that is not to say that their counterparts on the other extreme are any better. It could be far from the truth.

Assuming we have found a strain of breed that we are satisfied with, management is the largest factor concerning efficiency. How we manage our birds has a lot to do with how well they forage etc. I prefer to get my birds off artificial heat earlier than some. But, what I save on the electric bill does have an effect on their rate of growth early on. It does not affect the size they get to finally. Genetics dictate that in well managed flocks. Still, there is a portion of their feed dedicated to maintaining body temperature. If I was raising them solely for the production of fowl meat, I might be better off to maintain ideal temperatures longer.

We have to be carful about a false economy. Just because something costs less to maintain does not mean it is cost effective. Production of fowl meat depends on the consumption of feed. Often the birds that need the least concerning management is the least productive. That is not to say that low input breeds are not worth considering. Only that anything good comes at a cost. Profit requires investment. Output requires input.

I tend to look at breeds and strains as genetic pieces and parts. I came to value the independence of games. I have a couple friends that allow their stags to range independently, only feeding them whole corn to keep them close. They see losses to predators as natural selection. As they mature they gather them up and pen them individually. That would be cheap meat, but Oriental Games have hard flesh, and that amount of exercise would make for a bird that many would not want to eat. American games would have better flesh, but there is not much of it. They are small birds. My point is that they might be useful in a cross with a larger more productive breed.
The problem with games that are truly game is that they have to be housed individually. Maybe someone can find a strain like what is described here that are not fully game. Truly game game fowl do not run. Pecking order is established when there is only one left. That trait is what makes them "game".

Most breeds, if not all, have games in their history somewhere.

 

[gjensen]

To offer another breed/strain for comparison, I will mention my Catalanas.

They are active and persistent foragers. Foraging far and wide as soon as they are feathered out. They average 3 1/2 oz. of feed per day which is pretty good for a medium large breed. This is with the freedom to range, but also includes waste. For 3 1/2 oz. of feed per day, I get about 220extra large eggs pa without lights. I could get a little more with lights. I did experiment with cutting their feed with oats, and I saw no change in their lay rate. I was feeding them approximately 15% of their ration as oats.

One of the things that I appreciate about this breed is their activity level. Once I let them out, they rarely return until time to roost. Other breed/strains that I have had would make return trips to feed. I also averaged more feed per day per bird to include more waste. For a comparison my NHs eat about 5-1/2 oz per day. They are bigger birds. Too large in fact. Much too large by the Standard.

I was also surprised to find them good winter layer. Persisting at a slower rate during the shortest days, and swinging into full production especially early without lights. I was running lights for early hatches, but have quit with the success that I have had with this breed. I have found the pullets to be more reliable during the winter months. I call winter December, January, and February. I have considered this a plus, getting a little more for the feed they are fed in the winter.

For fowl meat, as cockerels, they mature exceptionally fast. They do not flesh out early however. I am working on that. There is a quick sprint to maturity, and then it is a slow pace to filling out. I tend to yard cockerels, but I have not seen a difference between those that are and are not. Typically I do see a difference, and thus the preference for the yards. This is a different bird though.

Chicks reared by their mothers are allowed to range freely and they do grow slower, but they are eating surprisingly little. The average final size is the similar.

For me, and my preference, these have great potential. I find them to be a good balance between low input and high output.

 

[mymilliefleur]

you made some very good points gjensen.
each breed has their own pros and cons and were all developed for there own purposes.
I did not intend to run down the leghorn breed. I have probably only ever owned less then half a dozen of them. I have found that a lot of breeders/hatchery's tend to focus on egg production with little thought to anything else such as size, hardiness, etc. I had two bard rocks from the same hatchery and one was half the size of the other. then there are show birds which are bred for appearance.
even though I have a large flock, I keep very close records of each bird. with so many, I can not keep special needs birds. ( I have some exceptions to this of coarse. ) though I call my games ''games '' that's not really the right term. I got them from a friend who has had them for 16 years. she lets them free range and they have become sort of ''feral''. she may have started out games, but now shes has moderately sized birds that are adapted to her area. once handled they are very sweet birds and get along surprisingly well. the cocks mature very quickly and make Delicious soup.
cross breeding them with other larger breeds are a good hybrid, but I have fond them to be more flighty then there game parent.
different breeds do well for different people depending on climate, housing, feed, etc,etc and also how they were raised, were they came from, who the parents were,etc.there are hundreds of factors.
how I raised those hens may have had something to do with how they did later on. for example, we had a heat wave a week after I set the some eggs and the temp went up to 110 F. one of the Andulusian's hens sisters was hatched with a heat related deformity. I have had different problems with all the hens in that batch, and they were all different breeds.
these are just a few things to consider.

 

[TheBanditQueen]

To offer another breed/strain for comparison, I will mention my Catalanas.

They are active and persistent foragers. Foraging far and wide as soon as they are feathered out. They average 3 1/2 oz. of feed per day which is pretty good for a medium large breed. This is with the freedom to range, but also includes waste. For 3 1/2 oz. of feed per day, I get about 220extra large eggs pa without lights. I could get a little more with lights. I did experiment with cutting their feed with oats, and I saw no change in their lay rate. I was feeding them approximately 15% of their ration as oats.

One of the things that I appreciate about this breed is their activity level. Once I let them out, they rarely return until time to roost. Other breed/strains that I have had would make return trips to feed. I also averaged more feed per day per bird to include more waste. For a comparison my NHs eat about 5-1/2 oz per day. They are bigger birds. Too large in fact. Much too large by the Standard.

I was also surprised to find them good winter layer. Persisting at a slower rate during the shortest days, and swinging into full production especially early without lights. I was running lights for early hatches, but have quit with the success that I have had with this breed. I have found the pullets to be more reliable during the winter months. I call winter December, January, and February. I have considered this a plus, getting a little more for the feed they are fed in the winter.

For fowl meat, as cockerels, they mature exceptionally fast. They do not flesh out early however. I am working on that. There is a quick sprint to maturity, and then it is a slow pace to filling out. I tend to yard cockerels, but I have not seen a difference between those that are and are not. Typically I do see a difference, and thus the preference for the yards. This is a different bird though.

Chicks reared by their mothers are allowed to range freely and they do grow slower, but they are eating surprisingly little. The average final size is the similar.

For me, and my preference, these have great potential. I find them to be a good balance between low input and high output.

Gjensen, how long have you been working with your particular strain of Catalanas? Where did your original stock come from?