Foraging And Feed Effeciency Comparing Breeds

[PepsNick]

This is what kathyinmo says about her HERITAGE BR's... talking not hatchery, but some of (if not the best) stock of Barred Rocks in the US.

Quote:
I have noticed my Delawares to be great at it, and my Barred Rocks. They get all the bugs and worms, while the others get ants.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Quote:
Thanks for saying this. I'm trying to raise healthy breeding stock and have found that they have to have quality feed in order to thrive. My flock are good foragers but they still need additional feed to be healthy. Yet, when the subject of foraging ability comes up, it seems to be asking whether a breed can function on forage alone. The fact that my breeds need additional feed seems to count against them.

I live in a rural area, where there are flocks of feral chickens who subsist on foraging for themselves alone. I had some of these chickens, gathered from treetops at night, in my first flock. They are awesome in their health, ability to reproduce, raise their own young and were great egg layers. But, the eggs were small. The chickens were banty sized. They would not have made a decent meat or even dual purpose chicken.
I'm guessing from this, that living on forage alone results in a small chicken.

The breeds I raise are dual purpose, heritage breeds. I need them to have meaty properties, big breasts etc. I'm afraid that if I breed for ability to subsist on foraging ability too much, I will end up sacrificing meat qualities.

Kim

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Fred's Hens :

I'll report on 4 breeds (strains)

Black Sex Link (commercial RIRxBR) Good layer, but at 6 lbs, bred to be an average eater. This is a plus, if cold hardiness is the goal, but feed to egg ratio quite average, nothing special. Excellent forager which helps only part of the year in northern Michigan.
Myers Golden Buff (production red) Superb layer, but slightly above average appetite and feed consumption.
Spotted Sussex outstanding forager, fairly light eater when able to forage. Heavy body. Mediocre egg laying.
I.S.A. Brown the feed conversion winner by a long, long way. Laying machine, very light body, and requires less feed than any breed/strain I've ever kept. Pretty aggressive forager, which is surprising, perhaps. None better at feed conversion to eggs laid.

Hope that helps.

It might be interesting to note that feed conversion and foraging capacity are not the same thing. Industrial crossbreds, which are by definition not breeds insofar as they do not breed true, have been selected over time for excellent feed conversion, but their husbandry plan does not incorporate in its scheme the ability or need to forage. They are developed for a closed system in which they consume commercially prepared grains only. For these birds, a conversation of feed conversion is necessary because the bottom line will be how many eggs exit for how much feed enters. They come from industry for the purposes of industry.

Of the birds you listed, the only breed, which is a long standing heritage breed, is the Speckled Sussex. Their very existence predates the manufacturing of grain; thuds foraging is a key element of their particular heritage.

The Dorking is an excellent forager, but this makes sense. If we consider it particular history, it has existed for so long without the benefit of scientifically formulated diets that foraging is distinctly in it blood. Old English Games, Mediterranean breeds, foundational Dutch and Belgian breeds, these birds long predate the feeding methodologies upon which we rely today.

Having said that, foraging is going to be strain related, and it is something for which on must select. This is at the very heart of landrace breeding. Of course, it presupposes that the homesatead possess adequate forage. With this given, you would raise up your stock on forage with little more than a hand out in the evening. At six months, you go over your stock looking for signs of vigor, thrift, and fleshing. Use your Standard to check for structure disqualification. These go on to be your breeders. You continue this process yearly, and gradually your birds will show, via their development, that they have adapted to your terrain.

Of course, the presupposes that you are beginning a sustained breeding program because otherwise the fruit of your selection will be lost in outcrossing.

In truth, there's more than a little bit of randomness in comparing fowl purchased from hatcheries, by which I am not slamming hatcheries, simply making a statement about their growing practices and those things that they expect their stock to do from one generation to another. I would place a fair sum of money that foraging is not among the vast majorit of hatcheries breeding goals. Without continued selection for thrift on forage, this capacity will start to dwindle. Thus, it's probably safe to assume that any particular hatchery stocks ability to forage is a vestige of where those birds were when their bloodlines were first procured by the hatchery. Moreover, given all of the variables that are possible between hatcheries and the stock they possess, it's safe to say that Orpingtons from this hatchery will not have retained the same foraging ability as Orpingtons from that hatchery. If one considers the essential nature of breeds, it probably safe to say that Silver Spangled Hamburgs, even from hatcheries, are going to forage better than Brahmas from hatcheries--due of course to the dum luck of history. Also, that any particular breed offered by a hatchery forages well is not really going to be indicative of a general quality of that hatchery but rather, once again, of the sheer luck of history.

If foraging is truly high on your priority list, and you want to see that capacity increase annually, consider choosing a breed that has, since its inception, been asked to forage; Dorkings, La Fleche, Old English Games, Hamburgs, Redcaps, Campines, Lakenvelders, Minorcas, Leghorns, Anconas, Dominiques, Javas, etc.... Then, make 'em go to it.

Good Luck~​

 

[Fred's Hens]

Quote:
It might be interesting to note that feed conversion and foraging capacity are not the same thing. Industrial crossbreds, which are by definition not breeds insofar as they do not breed true, have been selected over time for excellent feed conversion, but their husbandry plan does not incorporate in its scheme the ability or need to forage. They are developed for a closed system in which they consume commercially prepared grains only. For these birds, a conversation of feed conversion is necessary because the bottom line will be how many eggs exit for how much feed enters. They come from industry for the purposes of industry.

Of the birds you listed, the only breed, which is a long standing heritage breed, is the Speckled Sussex. Their very existence predates the manufacturing of grain; thuds foraging is a key element of their particular heritage.

The Dorking is an excellent forager, but this makes sense. If we consider it particular history, it has existed for so long without the benefit of scientifically formulated diets that foraging is distinctly in it blood. Old English Games, Mediterranean breeds, foundational Dutch and Belgian breeds, these birds long predate the feeding methodologies upon which we rely today.

Having said that, foraging is going to be strain related, and it is something for which on must select. This is at the very heart of landrace breeding. Of course, it presupposes that the homesatead possess adequate forage. With this given, you would raise up your stock on forage with little more than a hand out in the evening. At six months, you go over your stock looking for signs of vigor, thrift, and fleshing. Use your Standard to check for structure disqualification. These go on to be your breeders. You continue this process yearly, and gradually your birds will show, via their development, that they have adapted to your terrain.

Of course, the presupposes that you are beginning a sustained breeding program because otherwise the fruit of your selection will be lost in outcrossing.

In truth, there's more than a little bit of randomness in comparing fowl purchased from hatcheries, by which I am not slamming hatcheries, simply making a statement about their growing practices and those things that they expect their stock to do from one generation to another. I would place a fair sum of money that foraging is not among the vast majorit of hatcheries breeding goals. Without continued selection for thrift on forage, this capacity will start to dwindle. Thus, it's probably safe to assume that any particular hatchery stocks ability to forage is a vestige of where those birds were when their bloodlines were first procured by the hatchery. Moreover, given all of the variables that are possible between hatcheries and the stock they possess, it's safe to say that Orpingtons from this hatchery will not have retained the same foraging ability as Orpingtons from that hatchery. If one considers the essential nature of breeds, it probably safe to say that Silver Spangled Hamburgs, even from hatcheries, are going to forage better than Brahmas from hatcheries--due of course to the dum luck of history. Also, that any particular breed offered by a hatchery forages well is not really going to be indicative of a general quality of that hatchery but rather, once again, of the sheer luck of history.

If foraging is truly high on your priority list, and you want to see that capacity increase annually, consider choosing a breed that has, since its inception, been asked to forage; Dorkings, La Fleche, Old English Games, Hamburgs, Redcaps, Campines, Lakenvelders, Minorcas, Leghorns, Anconas, Dominiques, Javas, etc.... Then, make 'em go to it.

Good Luck~

A little unclear who the "you" is in all your paragraphs above. Nonetheless, thousands of BYCs have birds that are indeed commercial hybrids, whatever nifty name given to them by the hatchery. Further, it would appear to the casual observer that a very low percentage of keepers here have true heritage breeds. If the information on the feed conversion and foraging ability of those I listed is of no interest to anyone, kindly disregard.

 

[Sparklee]

Quote:
Could you please list these birds, including any landraces, you may be thinking of when you say "foundational." I've not thought much about them before.

Quote:
My eyes are popping out of my head.

Even with adequate forage, even raised with a broody hen to teach foraging skills, I would have very few chicks that could survive six months with "little more than a hand out in the evening." So this is groundbreaking information for me.

Not to mention, how well will they be able to develop their egg-producing organs on such a severe diet? Frankly, until they have reached a month into egg-laying, I wouldn't make our chickens survive on forage and "little more than a hand out in the evening." But maybe you were thinking that the birds would eventually resort to only laying a couple of clutches each spring and people eating their eggs year 'round isn't part of the foraging skills breeding plan.

I imagine that we could manage to, over 3-5 years, work our stock up to this type of foraging ability, but not straight out of the blocks.

But maybe I misunderstand. What is included in this proverbial handout? If I could handout a crop full of 25% protein feed to each bird during their first 5-6 months of life, then I guess there's more chance it could work. My vision of your "little more than a hand out" is only 1 cup of whole wheat and whole oats (combined) for 8 birds. So if you define "little more than a hand out," I might be able to wrap my head around how this plan would work, even with adequate forage.

To the OP, great thread idea. Thanks.

To Fred's Hens, thanks for your info. It's unquestionably useful.

 

[WallTenters]

Dominiques need to be at the top of the foraging list. Our birds grew like crazy on very little commercial feed. Right now they are limited to 3-4 days a week of free range, and the range is not as good, so we can't say for sure how much of their diet it is making up for. I know when we switched from free range (feed always available) to the current system their feed consumption more than doubled - it took a while to get used to!

 

[Arielle]

I'm over whelmed by so many responses. It's clear to see that most chickens need some assistance in acquiring enough food, specially the breeds that we bred to be larger bodied and have greater egg production. To increase the output, increase the input. Yet some of the old types still have the thriftiness to forage well and grow well. And I'm surprised that even the hatchery bred birds without the benefit of allowing foraging for generations still have the ability. The durable chicken!

I would like to note that I had not intended that all chickens should have to forage for everything. Clearly, chickens serve us well in a multitude of setups.


As caretakers of foraging birds, what can we provide in the way of "cover". I saw the picture of the white tent housing for the birds on pasture. Does anyone purposely leave brambles or rosebushes? Perhaps other bushes? Surviving while out foraging would be high on my list of traits to select for. I read faverolles were too shy to run from a hawk and RIR were just the opposite.So when I picked breeds (from a hatchery) I considered this. I got RIR and left faverolles off my list. SO while it's not directly a function of nutrition or feed effeciency, how about survivabiltiy while foraging?

 

[Arielle]

I would like to bring this thread back to life. There must be more breeds to add to foraging greats list.

 

[Ducks and Banny hens]

Quote:
There is. Bow Lake fowl. Now in all humility, I'm over-qualified to say this because of the way I raise my birds. Or lack of the way I raise my birds. Anywho, Bow Lake fowl, as they are a landrace in a very harsh climate, far excel any standardized breed on the continent for foraging ability. Let me put it this way: I can go 10 months without providing for them. That's 2 months of crack corn, spending winter in the barn, and 10 months getting all of their own food while based in their coop, and being healthier than the average chicken. Now that's foraging. And they have MEAT.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
There is. Bow Lake fowl. Now in all humility, I'm over-qualified to say this because of the way I raise my birds. Or lack of the way I raise my birds. Anywho, Bow Lake fowl, as they are a landrace in a very harsh climate, far excel any standardized breed on the continent for foraging ability. Let me put it this way: I can go 10 months without providing for them. That's 2 months of crack corn, spending winter in the barn, and 10 months getting all of their own food while based in their coop, and being healthier than the average chicken. Now that's foraging. And they have MEAT.

WOW! THats my kind of bird. What kind of territory do they travel and what natural foods are in your area for them? Are they a small bird with big muscling? Do you have pics?