Found a Bloody, Broken, Empty Egg in the Duck House... Why???

[muscovyslagter7]

Our Muscovy mommas have been sitting on their eggs for approximately 30 days... which should mean that they are about 3-5 days from hatching. This morning we went in the pen to let the ducks out of the duck house, and there was a broken egg on the floor of the house near the door. There was no rotten egg smell. The egg shell was bloody on the inside, and up on a roosting bench (above one of the nesting boxes) was a small, bloody pile of something unidentifiable. (My son investigated further and found it was a partially formed duckling, maybe only half the gestation size of a fully grown egg.)

Does anyone have an idea as to what happened? Did an egg break and one of the non-nesting ducks eat it? I'm not sure how the unformed duckling got up to the roosting bench. I'm not sure if one of the non-nesting ducks would steal an egg, break it, and eat it. If they did that, should I worry about it happening again? Why, after sitting for 30+ days on their nests, was the duckling so tiny? By my calculations they should be ready to hatch any day now.


(They rotate nests and share eggs.)

Any help, advice, information from the point of experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

[chooks4life]

Our Muscovy mommas have been sitting on their eggs for approximately 30 days... which should mean that they are about 3-5 days from hatching. This morning we went in the pen to let the ducks out of the duck house, and there was a broken egg on the floor of the house near the door. There was no rotten egg smell.

From their age I guess they weren't pipping the shell which means something broke in. If the eggshell is still around, if possible, check the break marks to try to see what did it.

In one case, a dog which had previously been very well behaved and trustworthy could no longer resist the rich smell of the eggs, it seems, and began stealing eggs at almost-hatching point. She would never do it when people were watching; she'd check on everyone's positions first, to make sure nobody was watching; then she'd remove the egg into the paddocks to eat it. No evidence was left but the shell, which I stumbled upon by chance, with the tell tale canine toothmarks spaced precisely at the width her teeth were; the next day we caught her in the act of strolling off with the next almost-pipping egg. Too late to save that one but the rest of the clutch was saved. No matter how much of a perfectly reliable and trustworthy angel your dog is, if you have one, assume it may be a culprit... Though in this case it sounds like an accidental break to me.

The egg shell was bloody on the inside, and up on a roosting bench (above one of the nesting boxes) was a small, bloody pile of something unidentifiable. (My son investigated further and found it was a partially formed duckling, maybe only half the gestation size of a fully grown egg.)

Because the duckling was not eaten, it's most likely in my opinion that it was an accidental break and one of the ducks did the instinctive thing and removed the broken egg so it wouldn't attract predators or harmful bacteria to the clutch.

Does anyone have an idea as to what happened? Did an egg break and one of the non-nesting ducks eat it? I'm not sure how the unformed duckling got up to the roosting bench. I'm not sure if one of the non-nesting ducks would steal an egg, break it, and eat it.

Yes, it's a possibility, but it's fairly likely you wouldn't have seen the duckling if this happened. They will, if instinctive enough, carry all broken eggs away from the nest site to save their clutches, and this goes for any avian species, basically, domestic or not.

If they did that, should I worry about it happening again?

Yes, very much so --- IF it was a deliberate break which I think unlikely, but I may be wrong. One tasty meal is enough to train even a rather unintelligent animal into repeating the actions required to get more of the same.

Why, after sitting for 30+ days on their nests, was the duckling so tiny? By my calculations they should be ready to hatch any day now.

Sounds like it was going to be a dud, possibly dead but not yet rotting... But due to your next sentence, there are a few possibilities.

(They rotate nests and share eggs.)

This is a serious issue. It rarely works out. When they share eggs, the eggs are being moved overly regularly and rolled more often than they should be, which results in breaks and embryonic deaths.

It's also an issue if they're close to one another as due to vocal imprinting, they can bond to babies not even in the same nest as them, which leads to violence and chaos when the mothers try to leave the nest and the babies don't know who they belong to, so they cry out in confusion and mild panic, which leads the mothers to try to claim and separate their clutches, thereby bringing mothers into conflict due to perceived hierarchy trespass and challenge.

Babies can and do imprint onto multiple mothers. I use this to my advantage to partially imprint poultry onto me, which makes for easier handling and more trust when they are adults. (I've never had violence issues with them despite the belief some have that this increases the likelihood of it... But, each to their own.)

Communal brooding also results in uneven incubation, so no egg is guaranteed to have received the correct amount of heating, so this less developed chick could simply have been one of the unlucky eggs who didn't get regular warmth.

No matter how they're acting right now, it will most likely change after or during hatching. One of the worst things is when they all respond to a hatchling trying to pip the shell by hustling around in the nest, shifting every egg as they try to all sit on the one that's hatching. Obviously this tends to result in death for the hatchlings and other eggs too.

It may still have been alive when the egg was broken, they can last much longer than their normal brood time if given enough heat to live but not enough to develop within the usual time frame.

Longest I've seen that work with a chicken egg is a month, which resulted in skinny (but live) hatchlings, which survived to adulthood despite the bad start.

When you allow group brooding, when they hatch, it results in all manner of chaos (except in the rare cases where it all works out) --- for example, all your broodies may abandon the nest for a single duckling, leaving hatching eggs to die, or they may allow the first hatchlings to starve and die because they're more strongly bonded to the nest, or because none of them bonded to it because of the presence of the other ducks.

You can end up with previously cooperative females battling over hatchlings, because their hierarchy, less active during brooding, will manifest itself when they cease brooding and get mobile and approach food. Needless to say a group of mothers fighting tends to result in trampled and dead or injured babies.

They may all bond to one hatchling or all fail to bond to any; likewise, the hatchlings may fail to bond to any one duck, or may bond to all. In this case, with chickens, they will choose the best mother and all adopt her. I don't know how ducklings would handle it.

They may become aggressive to one or all hatchlings because the hatchlings have bonded to one duck or another, or because the ducks perceive the hatchlings as belonging to another duck, irrespective of which duck the hatchling has actually bonded to... Then there's just color-hate, where a duck regardless of her own color may choose to kill all babies of a color or pattern she doesn't like. Some black hens reject all black babies and only keep whites, some white ones reject all whites and keep blacks, some mottled ones reject any non-solid-coloreds, it's crazy and apparently senseless, the reasons a baby may be rejected or killed.

These are all possibilities; there is no guarantee of what will happen, but a very high likelihood that some or all of the ducklings will die. If things go wrong, intervene immediately, would be my advice, and in future don't allow group brooding, it very rarely works.

Any help, advice, information from the point of experience would be greatly appreciated.

I haven't kept ducks, but I have kept geese, chickens, turkeys and some other birds, and from my experiences, group brooding is to be avoided unless you have two proven mothers you know can co-mother. Otherwise you're risking the whole clutch.

It's possible that some ducks co-mother well, just like some other domestic birds, but not something to bet babies' lives on if it can be avoided. It's a bit late now but fingers crossed, it may work out... But just in case I strongly recommend you have cages, makeshift if necessary, set up to isolate each duck with some eggs and a hatchling each if you have to separate them.

Best wishes, I hope you have the best case scenario occur.

 

[muscovyslagter7]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply!

Your answer really did help me understand what most likely happened. We shut the duck pen and house up tightly at night because we've had raccoon attacks before. So I know no other critters were involved. So I'm going to assume it was, as you suggested, an accidental break and that they were trying to remove it for safety of the flock purposes. The shell was missing a little bit ago, and I think that must be because one of them ate it.

This is the second year we've had Muscovy ducks, and last year they also shared nests, but they didn't rotate as much. I do see them moving their eggs around to one anothers' nests, and they all started brooding at one time (within a day or so of each other) - except one nest, and that hen and her eggs are totally separate from the others (in another area of the duck house) and she started sitting about 3 weeks after everyone else. Our duck pen is large, but the house is only about 5'x5'. My husband made six separate nesting boxes for the ducks, but 2 of them decided to share one box, 1 is sitting right next to those two in the middle of the floor, and hens 4 and 5 are both in separate nesting boxes (not sharing). Last year our hens did a similar thing and hatched 23 ducklings amongst them. One hen seemed to be dominant, but all the hens mothered all the ducklings very well. We even had 2 drakes (and were afraid one drake might kill unfamiliar ducklings), and they did GREAT with the ducklings. One hen did abandon her clutch when the rest hatched though - but she was only sitting on about 5 eggs in a totally separate area of the building.

How could we separate the ducks once their nests are made and they're group brooding? Last year one of our hens made an entirely separate nest out in the grazing area of the duck pen, and we didn't notice it until she had a full clutch. We tried to move the nest into the duck house to help protect her and the eggs from predators, but she went CRAZY trying to get out of the duck house and back to her eggs (thinking the ones we had moved were not hers). So we had to just move her eggs back out to the field and hope for the best. Well, the worst happened. She was ripped to shreds by raccoons, and so were her ducklings (that were in eggs just a few days from hatching). So we've been afraid to move eggs/nests ourselves. Muscovies are apparently notorious for sharing ducklings and "co-parenting" them... even the drakes. Your answers have me a bit worried though. Most of them didn't nest as close together last year (although two did sit on one nest). We are currently building an indoor/outdoor, top-enclosed chicken/duck house. That way they'll have the ability to nest outside if they'd rather. Muscovies like to dig holes in the ground for nesting. So I think they can spread out more if they want to do that, but it seems they like to nest together for some reason.

Thanks again for your answers! Any additional input would be most welcome.

 

[chooks4life]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply!

Your answer really did help me understand what most likely happened. We shut the duck pen and house up tightly at night because we've had raccoon attacks before. So I know no other critters were involved. So I'm going to assume it was, as you suggested, an accidental break and that they were trying to remove it for safety of the flock purposes. The shell was missing a little bit ago, and I think that must be because one of them ate it.

That's good, it's pretty normal for them to eat the shell, but the fact that they didn't eat the duckling is good.

This is the second year we've had Muscovy ducks, and last year they also shared nests, but they didn't rotate as much. I do see them moving their eggs around to one anothers' nests, and they all started brooding at one time (within a day or so of each other) - except one nest, and that hen and her eggs are totally separate from the others (in another area of the duck house) and she started sitting about 3 weeks after everyone else. Our duck pen is large, but the house is only about 5'x5'. My husband made six separate nesting boxes for the ducks, but 2 of them decided to share one box, 1 is sitting right next to those two in the middle of the floor, and hens 4 and 5 are both in separate nesting boxes (not sharing). Last year our hens did a similar thing and hatched 23 ducklings amongst them. One hen seemed to be dominant, but all the hens mothered all the ducklings very well. We even had 2 drakes (and were afraid one drake might kill unfamiliar ducklings), and they did GREAT with the ducklings. One hen did abandon her clutch when the rest hatched though - but she was only sitting on about 5 eggs in a totally separate area of the building.

Sounds like you've hit the jackpot with cooperative mothers. If they made it work last time then it should work again.

Out of all my various proven mothers I only have two who cooperated well, but they only did it three or so times... One hen decided that with each successive clutch, she'd participate less and less. So she'd keep slinking off, a little more each day, a little earlier with each successive clutch, to let the other female do more of the work each day and with each clutch, and she'd nip back into the coop to make another clutch, leaving the other hen with about 20 babies to rear alone.

After that the other mother no longer allowed that hen to co-brood or co-mother. Smart. I have seen 'cuckoo'-like behaviors among chickens, I believe some have adapted methods to relieve themselves of full responsibility, and since the chicks also show some 'cuckoo' behaviors under certain circumstances I think this may hark back to their wild ancestral types where there may be two females with a male and one hen will dominate the other, so the subordinate's got to do some sneaky things in order to pass on her genes.

How could we separate the ducks once their nests are made and they're group brooding?
With great difficulty, lol... Unfortunately, that's often it, but not always.

It all depends on the females themselves, and their own individual characters. Some will trust you, some won't. Some can re-bond to a new location, some won't.

My most experienced mothers know to trust me, they know they have cages set up for them to separately brood in; from experience they know it is best to let me move them. They tend to lay in the main coops. Over time, they got used to me moving them out of there whenever they hatched any, then they got used to me moving them out there overnight whenever they brooded, then they got used to laying in their separate broody cages, to start with. Soon they got jealous about the cages even when not brooding or laying and would object to me putting any other hens in there, lol! They'd move themselves back to the main cages when not rearing chicks, but inspect their broody cages daily to see if any trespassers were squatting in there and raise a ruckus if they were.

I would move them overnight, and during the day let them move back to their usual place. Overnight I'd move them back out again. And repeat for a week if necessary, while putting the eggs wherever the hens were to make sure they kept incubating; generally it'd take about three or four days before the hens bonded to the new location.

If you lock them into their new location many will stop brooding and fret while trying to get back to the old one so I don't lock them in. If I don't trust them to keep brooding, I let them hatch in the main coops, but I put a little bird cage, like those for canaries, without a bottom, over the top of the hen in her chosen nest while the babies hatch so they're not disturbed. Once the babies hatch of course the mother will bond to them (in most cases anyway) and you can move her to her own little mothering cage.

Some, however, will just get un-broody, just quit permanently as soon as disturbed. Those ones I count as no loss, because they were clearly not dedicated to the brood and I don't allow half-hearted mothering so it's better to discover a hen lacks strong maternal instinct before she broods, not after. Many can learn but I'd rather not waste whole clutches or valuable genetics or lives finding out or letting them practice their bad mothering skills.

Last year one of our hens made an entirely separate nest out in the grazing area of the duck pen, and we didn't notice it until she had a full clutch. We tried to move the nest into the duck house to help protect her and the eggs from predators, but she went CRAZY trying to get out of the duck house and back to her eggs (thinking the ones we had moved were not hers). So we had to just move her eggs back out to the field and hope for the best. Well, the worst happened. She was ripped to shreds by raccoons, and so were her ducklings (that were in eggs just a few days from hatching). So we've been afraid to move eggs/nests ourselves.

I would get things like fridge shelves, and scrap metals, and wire them together into makeshift, but strong, lockable little mobile cages. When a hen set out in the paddock I'd just put one over her. I would also move them around to suit hens who needed space to rear a clutch, since most hens don't want to put their babies in with the main flock until they're actually approaching abandonment time, when the babies are old enough to fend for themselves. They also make great little convalescent cages. These were the cages I'd bond hens to, shift their clutches to, etc.

You can make them to be able to be pegged to the ground and have 'skirts' around them to stop things digging in or lifting them, too. I made them out of all manner of scraps lying around and called them my 'frankencages', lol, they're lifesavers though. When I moved house people came from miles away to pick up the cages for their birds, so I'd guess there's a ready market for these little multipurpose mobile cages. It only takes one person to shift them, easy and simple.

I'd also recommend you have fake eggs. They help for so many things, like re-bonding a hen to a new location without risking real eggs, teaching egg-eaters to not bother (whether rats or poultry). I used plaster of paris and coated them with acrylic and they last for years even exposed to the elements, in fact I still have some.

Using golf balls etc didn't work, my hens weren't fooled, and I think it's due to the heat conduction of eggs. Live eggs feel different. You can tell if an egg is alive or dead based on its heat conduction, just by holding it in your hand. Dead eggs resist heat and won't hold it, rapidly dissipating it once the heat source is removed. Live ones absorb it rapidly and hold it for a long time after the heat source is removed, as they have their own metabolism. Plaster of paris holds and conducts heat very similarly to the way a live egg does.

Muscovies are apparently notorious for sharing ducklings and "co-parenting" them... even the drakes. Your answers have me a bit worried though. Most of them didn't nest as close together last year (although two did sit on one nest). We are currently building an indoor/outdoor, top-enclosed chicken/duck house. That way they'll have the ability to nest outside if they'd rather. Muscovies like to dig holes in the ground for nesting. So I think they can spread out more if they want to do that, but it seems they like to nest together for some reason.

I was thinking before that I've heard something, somewhere, about how Muscovies can co-mother well... Good for you, must be a weight off your mind. It's amazing how much trouble some others are, lol... I have some hens who insist on co-brooding but can't co-mother.

Thanks again for your answers! Any additional input would be most welcome.

You're welcome.

Little mobile cages are awesome and so, so handy, I strongly recommend you make some or get someone handy to build you a few.

They don't need to be architectural wonders, just functional. I'd recommend some sort of probably mesh skirting around the edges and purpose built loops to drive tent pegs through, and lockable little doors, and aviary mesh to prevent raccoons reaching in. Most of my locks were not real locks either, just for example loops of wire I put over a corner or rod protruding from the doors, which as often as not were fridge shelves.

Most of my broody cages were only a meter or so square, they don't need to be big. Just to have shelter, a safe brooding place, a place for food and water for those first hatchlings, and a door that can be locked each night to keep the hen and the babies safe.

This allows freeranging daily or nest breaks but keeps them safe. It's a little more work to shut them in each night but once you get into the routine it only takes moments and the peace of mind and preservation of life is worth it.

Best wishes.

 

[chooks4life]

Should add... With separating nests, you can just make raised partitions they can't roll eggs over, and then you can allow them to sit beside one another yet keep the eggs in each separate nest. I've done that with geese, they didn't like it at first but got used to it and it was better for the goslings.

Best wishes.

 

[BLT79]

Finally, an answer to my broken, bloody egg shell. Also learned something new that now has me concerned. I have two broody hens sharing a clutch. Hatch day is Tuesday!

 

[chooks4life]

Finally, an answer to my broken, bloody egg shell. Also learned something new that now has me concerned. I have two broody hens sharing a clutch. Hatch day is Tuesday!

Well, I did paint the worst case scenarios, but it's more common than not that at least one of those circumstances eventuates, which is the reason I detailed these situations. There are happy exceptions to the 'rule'. Unfortunately the only way to see if you own hens who are the exceptions is to risk some chicks, but any unproven/first time mother is a risk to chicks' lives, it's unavoidable. Even removing the hens and using incubators doesn't remove risks to their lives either.

One good thing is that unproven mothers often take a while to make up their minds about how they're going to manage this mothering thing, so they don't always go straight to abandoning or killing chicks even if that's where they're going to end up. Most give some warning signs for a few hours or days first. Plenty don't, though. Some will give warning signs and not follow through but they're a minority.

My two chicken hens who were the exception in my flock were not closely related and didn't normally associate with one another, so it was all the more surprising when they co-mothered. But two hens getting along doesn't mean they will continue to do so with babies around. It's very much something you end up playing by ear so to avoid future trouble I don't allow it anymore because it can and usually does deteriorate without warning.

If either of your hens has shown aggression to other hens with babies around, whether the babies were hers or the other hens', you could take an educated guess that it's likely to happen again. It's fairly normal for a free range hen with babies to reinforce her pecking order status as soon as she's off the nest. If, however, she was the one without babies attacking a hen with babies I wouldn't expect her to do any better as a mother, just because the babies are hers. If either of these hens has shown a baby aggression, it's also likely to recur. If either of those things has happened I'd probably take steps to separate them, just in case. If neither of these things has happened, you may be able to let them go and see how they do....

Just for safety's sake some raised partitions between the eggs may be a good idea. You'd need to reshape the nests too so there is no abnormally low point, i.e. if the two hens made a single 'scoop'/bowl shape for all the eggs, you'd need to make two of them, with a partition in between.

If you are keeping an eye on the eggs, and able to handle them and the hens, then you should be able to intervene in time if necessary, providing your schedule/job/whatever doesn't coincide with hatch time. Asides from that, having separate cages is really helpful, often when you least expect it. Even a makeshift 'cage' like a plastic storage tub or bucket on its side with something around it can help a lot in emergencies.

If one of the hens pecks the babies hard enough to make them cry out in a shrill way, not 'surprised' but 'ouch' then it's very likely she will soon be killing them so you'd need to separate them asap, unless you're willing to take the chance and hope it's a false alarm. Last time I did that, though, four babies died in a few minutes. If you ever see babies clustered around the rump end of a hen, refusing to move forwards, there's often a good reason; they learn that hiding under and behind her is safer than going anywhere near her beak end. Hard to tell from normal 'hiding' or 'snuggling' behavior though, which is where experience and having hens who are used to being handled helps, so you can put a baby of hers in front of her and see if she attacks it. That way you'll know if they're hiding for that reason. If they're not used to being handled they're more likely to attack any baby you put in front of them just because your hand was involved, lol...

If you're not very experienced, then it's harder, but experience will soon show you the warning signs of impending violence, which are often quite subtle both in male and female chickens irrespective of what their target is. If I listed the behaviors I cull/rehome chickens for it would sound terribly severe but experience shows me these behaviors are not present without a certain mindset behind them, and that mindset does not change except in the rarest cases, and the birds showing the traits do not fail to act on them except in the rarest cases and either way it's too much of a risk to keep them, for me and others --- and it's highly heritable for generations to come.

Best wishes with your co-broodies. There's always a chance it will be fine, but always best to have an emergency plan B and maybe C ready just in case.

 

[BLT79]

Thank you. I do have a separate coop I could always move them too. Hopefully by hatch day I will also have another grow out coop from a friend of mine. This is their first time as mothers. So I guess I will just have to wait and see how things go.

 

[Sylviaanne]

Chooks4life: Your post #2 is quite informative and extremely helpful. Your paragraphs in post #4 about fake eggs explains a lot. When I was a child I was told by my grandmother to leave at least one egg in a nest to get the hens to come back and lay there but I am always afraid that if I manage to leave the same egg all the time that it will go bad. I put an alabaster egg in the nest and it kept getting kicked out. They would also bury the alabaster egg under the straw/hay off to the edge of the nest. I kept putting it back and finally they left it there but eventually they moved the nest. I don't know if they were smart or just kept trying to get rid of that cold egg. LOL

I didn't know that chicken hens wouldn't share care of the babies. I have several who are laying in the same nest, including ducks and it looks like I have one hen that might go broody. So far, I remove the eggs I want from the nest and more are in there the next day so I don't think she is committed to being broody yet.

The one that I catch sitting on the eggs is a Cornish Cross and all but 2 of my hens are just a year old. Now, with dogs, it is better that you don't breed them until they are a minimum of 18 months old and better yet 2 years old. Also, if you breed your dog their first heat, about 9 months old, they may not know how to care for their babies. Could it be that hens only a year old are not prepared "mentally" for being broody at that young age? Could that be why some of them are not good mothers at first?

Thanks, Sylvia

 

[chooks4life]

Thank you. I do have a separate coop I could always move them too. Hopefully by hatch day I will also have another grow out coop from a friend of mine. This is their first time as mothers. So I guess I will just have to wait and see how things go.

Hope all goes well. Always pays to keep a close and skeptical eye on first time mothers, lol! Some of them are terrible.

Chooks4life: Your post #2 is quite informative and extremely helpful. Your paragraphs in post #4 about fake eggs explains a lot. When I was a child I was told by my grandmother to leave at least one egg in a nest to get the hens to come back and lay there but I am always afraid that if I manage to leave the same egg all the time that it will go bad. I put an alabaster egg in the nest and it kept getting kicked out. They would also bury the alabaster egg under the straw/hay off to the edge of the nest. I kept putting it back and finally they left it there but eventually they moved the nest. I don't know if they were smart or just kept trying to get rid of that cold egg. LOL

I'm glad to hear it helps.

I used to use a real egg, too, I'd mark it with a graphite pencil, but fake is better. I'd bet your hens were smart, trying to remove the egg, because if it stayed cold it would have given them the impression it was bad, and bad eggs can contaminate the nest and destroy the whole clutch via the bacteria that colonizes a dead egg. They also attract predators with the smell. But plenty of hens are so devoid of instinct they will set a whole clutch of very dead eggs and keep sitting after the eggs are exploding under them. Likewise hens with little instinct don't mind their nests being pillaged by 'predators' (i.e. us) that take all the eggs, but more instinctive ones will quit the nest permanently if there isn't an egg left for them.

I didn't know that chicken hens wouldn't share care of the babies. I have several who are laying in the same nest, including ducks and it looks like I have one hen that might go broody. So far, I remove the eggs I want from the nest and more are in there the next day so I don't think she is committed to being broody yet.

Some chicken hens share care, but it's a bit like winning the lottery, there's no way to tell if that's going to happen and mostly it won't happen, and the results can be disastrous with a lot of chick fatalities. If you get a great mother, even if she's some mongrel you don't like, keep her would be my recommendation, as that hen can be worth her weight in feed a hundred times over, lol. They're very handy to have.

The one that I catch sitting on the eggs is a Cornish Cross and all but 2 of my hens are just a year old. Now, with dogs, it is better that you don't breed them until they are a minimum of 18 months old and better yet 2 years old. Also, if you breed your dog their first heat, about 9 months old, they may not know how to care for their babies. Could it be that hens only a year old are not prepared "mentally" for being broody at that young age? Could that be why some of them are not good mothers at first?

Thanks, Sylvia

It's a good theory and probably applies to some, particularly breeds like some bantams that mature more slowly. I think more depends on whether the last few generations of that animal's ancestors were allowed to mother naturally. Bottle-babies or any orphan raised by humans are much likelier to fail to mother themselves. Still, a dog at 9 months is still a juvenile and in a more natural environment they would still be years from breeding whereas a hen at 9 months would likely be working towards her first clutch.

Most of my hens I don't breed for 'keepers' until they're at least a year old, but I brood some of their eggs (under proven, older hens) when they're first laying for 'munchies' since breeding them under a year old basically guarantees an almost entirely male clutch, and I've yet to see a superior animal be born to an underage mother, so it basically guarantees me a clutch which can be eaten without being any loss, since you're not picking between good animals for the cooking pot, only sub par ones.

Middle aged breeders are better than very old or very young with basically all species, or any animal in their prime basically, which chooks are from about 2 years old. I don't let them brood, generally, unless they're at least a year old, but some mothers are perfect from the very first time and others just don't get it, irrespective of age. Some can learn but they're a liability to chicks in the meantime. If they're aggressive I never give them a second chance... In fact I don't give almost any a second chance anymore, but I used to.

We've bred maternal instinct completely out of some breeds and it exists to widely varying levels in others. For example your Cornish cross is unlikely to be a good mother but even hens from non-brooding breeds can be good mothers.

Being unable to act on instinct generation after generation dulls down the instinct, since it's clearly no longer relevant for the survival of the species if successful reproduction is occurring without that instinct being used and reinforced. Having an opportunity to act on it can bring it back because it takes a fair while to actually die out, in fact it's possible they never truly lose the instincts. I had some Isabrown hens who were nonbrooders, who watched other mothers with their babies unblinkingly ('chick tv' we called it, they would stand there motionless for half an hour at a time, just staring) and after a few years of that they all went broody and mothered like old pros. Some scientific studies done on chickens show they learn by watching quite efficiently and I've certainly found that to be true.

Best wishes.