Free ranging pros and cons?

[lazy gardener]

Forcing any animals to eat only one kind of food is asking for problems.. despite the manufactures claim that they are complete diets. After all, they what to sell the most of their product they can.. so they don't want us using less by feeding other foods to our chickens.

Well said, and in agreement with my continued opinion that commercial chicken feed is not the perfect diet for poultry. Do you ever have a day when you just crave an ice cold glass of orange juice, or perhaps a nice tender steak, cooked to perfection on the grill? If the human diet consisted of nothing but Cheerios, which was advertised as the perfectly balanced food... how much greater would those cravings be? Not to attribute chicken behavior to being similar to human behavior/emotions/thought process... but when i see chicks delving into a bowl full of nothing more than garden soil with great gusto, while totally ignoring their feed, it tells me that poultry feed DOES NOT meet all of the needs of the average chicken!

I So my cheap chickens idea now turned into a fort knox coop with electric fencing, the run just went from 4x8 to 8x16, an electric door (probably 1500$ into a homemade coop/run).

You might want to check the threads about making an electric pop door using a car radio antenna.

 

[Lisa W]

'I have had a flock for a little over year. I started out letting them free range during the day in a large wooded fenced in back yard. Everything went fine for the first couple months. I went out of town and a neighbor was managing them, locking up the predator proof pen at night after they roosted. One of them vanished into thin air while I was gone. We never found a trace of her inside or outside the fence. I loved having them free range, loved watching them scratch and peck. I could walk out on the deck and they would come running to me. I added to the flock replace the missing bird and within a week, another loss. This time I found her body, of course mutilated, inside the fence. General consensus was a hawk. I was aware I had hawks, but thought there was plenty of coverage for them to run to. I didn't learn my lesson yet. However, I put a "baby" monitor in the back yard where I could hear everything and only let them "free range" when I was home and could listen out. Not good enough, I was home, had the monitor on was sitting in the sunroom right off of my deck when I heard a lot of clatter. I ran outside to see the *****hawk penning one of my hens to the ground, right there in full view. He flew off immediately and she lay there motionless, presumably dead. I gathered the rest of the birds and went to retrieve the dead, injured, or dying bird. As soon as I got up to her she jumped up and ran off uninjured!!! Smart girl was playing dead and I got there just in time. I'm sure in seconds she would have been the third kill.

So I finally learned my lesson, and we went to a great deal of effort to enclose a large "exercise" area outside the pen with fence and bird netting overhead. We made a window out of the pen where the flock can go in and out all day. Then at dusk we shut the window to Fort Knox. I'm glad to report we've had no problems since then. I still am tempted to let them out from time to time, but resist the temptation. They seem happy and egg production is good. I have several neighbors that let their flock free range with a rooster and they just don't worry about it.

So you must way the pros and cons and evaluate what predators might be a threat. I don't think there is any protection from a hawk except completely enclosing an area as we did. I would be happy to send you a picture of our setup. I don't think I can attach it here however.

Good Luck!

 

[Wingleader]

This is so true, the prior owners of our house did the same thing! i find pieces glass and plastic all the time and I am constantly looking for it! There appears to be the back end of a row boat sticking up near the fence line! I know one of my birds ate an approx one cm square of plastic before I could get to it about a month ago, so far no ill effect but about a week ago my GLW had her tail down for two days, still not 100% and i was worried that was the cause. Wingleader, I would be interested to know if that is your "illness", if you remember can you pm me!

I will certainly PM you when I get the results. The bird that succumbed on Friday should have arrived at the laboratory by 3pm today. So I should know within a few days. I'll definitely PM you when I find out.

 

[Beekissed]

Studies have shown that the high calcium content of layer feed harms chicks' kidneys. Your birds may seem healthy and happy, but just because the damage is not apparent, it that does not mean it's not happening.

Here is one of the studies and results: http://www.pvj.com.pk/pdf-files/24_3/113-116.pdf

It's better, when feeding a mixed age flock of layers and young chicks, to feed an all flock, or grower feed and offer calcium supplements free choice on the side. In my experience the chicks and cockerels in the flock do not eat the supplements and the hens help themselves to the supplement as needed.

The study was done on meat chicks, which we both know are not typical of a free range back yard layer flock and aren't typical of most any other kind of bird in their metabolism, their exercise and mobility habits and in their general genetics for hardiness and health. They consistently die of organ failure of one kind or another even when fed on the appropriate feeds when they are raised in confinement and sometimes even when free ranged and fed on healthier, restricted diets.

Interesting read. However, these broiler chicks are fed only on the 3 feeds the scientists made up They had no choice to vary their diet according to what they need. They had no access to any other foods and had no access to plants or grit and other minerals. The bird were also housed indoors and had no access to natural sunlight.

Other things can influence the absorption rate of calcium into the body.. for example the size of the particles... large particles will stay longer in the birds gizzard and so more calcium will be taken in.. where as powdered calcium will be passed through the bird quickly and less is absorbed. It does not say in the experiment what the source of the calcium was... rocks or oyster shell, for example.

I would not advise people to feed their chicks or roosters etc solely on layer pellets. But its not going to harm their birds if they eat layer pellets as part of a varied diet and they are able to free range also.

Some of my chickens are over 8 years old and they are not suffering any ill effects from eating these pellets, or chick starter.

The birds will naturally know what they need and eat accordingly. Forcing any animals to eat only one kind of food is asking for problems.. despite the manufactures claim that they are complete diets. After all, they what to sell the most of their product they can.. so they don't want us using less by feeding other foods to our chickens.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. A few studies done on birds kept in confinement and with the shoddy genetics of broiler birds which are prone to organ failure anyway is not a good example of how calcium is used in a layer flock that is out on free range, be they chicks or otherwise.

'I have had a flock for a little over year. I started out letting them free range during the day in a large wooded fenced in back yard. Everything went fine for the first couple months. I went out of town and a neighbor was managing them, locking up the predator proof pen at night after they roosted. One of them vanished into thin air while I was gone. We never found a trace of her inside or outside the fence. I loved having them free range, loved watching them scratch and peck. I could walk out on the deck and they would come running to me. I added to the flock replace the missing bird and within a week, another loss. This time I found her body, of course mutilated, inside the fence. General consensus was a hawk. I was aware I had hawks, but thought there was plenty of coverage for them to run to. I didn't learn my lesson yet. However, I put a "baby" monitor in the back yard where I could hear everything and only let them "free range" when I was home and could listen out. Not good enough, I was home, had the monitor on was sitting in the sunroom right off of my deck when I heard a lot of clatter. I ran outside to see the *****hawk penning one of my hens to the ground, right there in full view. He flew off immediately and she lay there motionless, presumably dead. I gathered the rest of the birds and went to retrieve the dead, injured, or dying bird. As soon as I got up to her she jumped up and ran off uninjured!!! Smart girl was playing dead and I got there just in time. I'm sure in seconds she would have been the third kill.

So I finally learned my lesson, and we went to a great deal of effort to enclose a large "exercise" area outside the pen with fence and bird netting overhead. We made a window out of the pen where the flock can go in and out all day. Then at dusk we shut the window to Fort Knox. I'm glad to report we've had no problems since then. I still am tempted to let them out from time to time, but resist the temptation. They seem happy and egg production is good. I have several neighbors that let their flock free range with a rooster and they just don't worry about it.

So you must way the pros and cons and evaluate what predators might be a threat. I don't think there is any protection from a hawk except completely enclosing an area as we did. I would be happy to send you a picture of our setup. I don't think I can attach it here however.

Good Luck!

This is an example of what I like to call "Kiss for Luck" free ranging. There are more than a few things one can do to increase the success of a flock's free ranging without predation and you only provided two of those...cover to duck under and a fence.

Here's an article that can help you have more success with free ranging and has served me well for many years now:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/bees-key-points-to-successful-and-safe-free-ranging

 

[GrammiChelle]

Thanks for the heads up. The previous occupants here had a pool and it looks like they just let the thing rot in it's place. Our Great Pyrenees puppy dug up some of what looks like liner under the sand. It's very close to the chicken coop. ASAP, my next yard job will be digging up every piece of it!! Thanks for the heads up!! I'm also going to look around the yard for more dangerous possibilities. I only let mine out for just a little while before sunset, and I stay right with them. They're just 8 weeks old and I've only let them out once so far.

 

[sumi]

Quote:
Bee, I'm aware of that, but this study's results were quite interesting and detailed. Here are some info and recommendations from other non-broiler specific sources:



Read more: http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/avian/feedingchickens.pdf

"Nutritional
Nutritional or metabolic factors known to affect the kidneys are:

• Excess dietary calcium fed to immature pullets over a period of time will result in kidney damage that may lead to gout. This could result from a feed milling error, accidental delivery of layer feed to a growing house, or excessively early use of pre-lay diet (i.e., before 15-16 weeks of age).
• Grower diets that contain large particle-size CaCO3 (i.e., greater than 1-2 mm mean diameter) that allows individuals to selectively pick out and consume these particles, in turn resulting in excessive intake of calcium. To ensure correct calcium intake, grower diets should contain CaCO3 only in a fine-powder form (i.e, 1 mm mean diameter or less). Larger particle size CaCO3 may be used beginning with the pre-lay diet, after 15-16 weeks of age."

Read more: http://www.hyline.com/aspx/redbook/redbook.aspx?s=5&p=36

"Laying hens require large amounts of calcium for eggshells. Laying mashes typically contain 2.5% to 3.5% calcium. Growing chickens require only 1.2% calcium in their feed. If you feed high-calcium diets to growing chickens, kidney damage can result."

Read more: http://www.extension.org/pages/69065/feeding-chickens-for-egg-production#.U46mLJW5DZs

 

[Beekissed]

Bee, I'm aware of that, but this study's results were quite interesting and detailed. Here are some info and recommendations from other non-broiler specific sources:



Read more: http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/avian/feedingchickens.pdf

"Nutritional
Nutritional or metabolic factors known to affect the kidneys are:

• Excess dietary calcium fed to immature pullets over a period of time will result in kidney damage that may lead to gout. This could result from a feed milling error, accidental delivery of layer feed to a growing house, or excessively early use of pre-lay diet (i.e., before 15-16 weeks of age).
• Grower diets that contain large particle-size CaCO3 (i.e., greater than 1-2 mm mean diameter) that allows individuals to selectively pick out and consume these particles, in turn resulting in excessive intake of calcium. To ensure correct calcium intake, grower diets should contain CaCO3 only in a fine-powder form (i.e, 1 mm mean diameter or less). Larger particle size CaCO3 may be used beginning with the pre-lay diet, after 15-16 weeks of age."

Read more: http://www.hyline.com/aspx/redbook/redbook.aspx?s=5&p=36

"Laying hens require large amounts of calcium for eggshells. Laying mashes typically contain 2.5% to 3.5% calcium. Growing chickens require only 1.2% calcium in their feed. If you feed high-calcium diets to growing chickens, kidney damage can result."

Read more: http://www.extension.org/pages/69065/feeding-chickens-for-egg-production#.U46mLJW5DZs

I can appreciate that those are the commonly accepted sources for this kind of thing, but those aren't studies, are they? They are merely repeating information they have sourced elsewhere, one of which is from a feed company website. None of these are sourced from specific studies done on layer birds in a free range environment and this is what this post is about. It's about the pros and cons of free ranging, one of the pros...or cons, as it is being argued...is about the nutritional benefits of free ranging chickens. These articles are not sourcing studies done on the specific of layer birds in a free range situation, therefore they have very little bearing on the discussion.

As there are no studies that I have found on this specific subject, nor is there likely to be because studies need funding and no one is funding natural nutrition for poultry, then we have to rely on anecdotal results of those who have done it for many a long year to see how it affects flocks. No, it's not scientific but it's the closest thing we have as the other studies just do not apply.

It's one of those issues where your information that you have provided is valuable for those who are wanting to follow the commonly accepted information on this issue...and that information has been repeated ad nauseum on every blog and forum on poultry, so it's readily available to all who need it.

Then there are those who would like to see for themselves how these things vary when used on animals totally free to choose what levels of calcium they are consuming out on free range. How does the studies account for chicks consuming higher than 4% calcium levels out on free range? They don't, is the simple answer to that. Since one cannot control calcium consumption out on free range, the amount of calcium in the grain based feeds then becomes a moot point...it's not their main source and keeping it lower will have little bearing on their total calcium consumption.

I've yet to see broody raised young chicks out on free range flopping over from the high calcium consumption in the legumes, bugs and worms they are consuming, so until I do, I'll still feed layer to chicks and roosters and let all ages out on free range for their calcium needs to be balanced as their bodies see fit.

 

[jak2002003]

I agree is wrong and harmful to feed layer solely as a feed for growing chicks.

But feeding them as a supplement while birds are free ranging will cause no problems.

 

[Dead Rabbit]

The more experience I get the less I lean on nor agree with scientific studies. I follow true life experience much more than I follow so called studies or what I read in print.

Everything I'm about to say is based on the assumption one is feeding a quality ration. And the only way to know this is also through experience.....

There is no patch of free ranged land that is as nutritious or balanced as one can get from a good quality ration. UNLESS the land is custom grown, planted, maintained, and periodically tested. And even then it's only an unrealistic assumption each and every bird is consuming a perfect balance of what it's system needs....which takes us to another assumption based on pure fantasy. And that is assuming each bird is eating exactly what it NEEDS. Real life and reasoning dictates otherwise. Chickens is just like any other living being. The are going after what they like most. Of course their systems may give them cravings but generallly they will consume their fAvorites. Like a kid going straight towards candy, bypassing spinach. A simple proof of this is how fowl love corn. Corn is one of the least nutritious grains. Mostly empty carbs. Whereas the healthier grains such as whole oats, chickens avoid UNLESS they are raised on them. And even then it's not their favorite by any stretch of the imagination.
To have good nutrition you must control their diets. A balanced breeder ration or a step down, layer ration is the foundation of a balanced diet. Mix in some whole grains. Preferably soaked in water or a vitamin mix is best. Couple times a week give them some soaked cat or dog food, a good brand, nothing cheap, to fulfill their need for animal protein , throw them any and all garden/kitchen scraps and you will have pristine picture perfect extremely healthy fowl. MUCH better than free ranged. Which is at the nutritional mercy of whatever the environment offers, not even taking into consideration what they are TRULY eating while ranging.

From my experience you can't beat the commercial mixed rations. It's just assumptions that it's not as good because it's not all natural. Plus it's modern day human nature to vilify anything that is massed produced by a corporation....

 

[Dead Rabbit]

Another misconception that seems to be parroted by the masses , is the taboo of feeding layer ration to chicks.

I've raised many many many over the years feeding layer crumbles. Now I must say this isn't my preferred method, but at times a few will hatch unplanned or only a few hatch and I don't see the reason buying 50 lbs of starter for a few chicks,.....if it's planned. A hatching I really want or special birds I will feed a bag of starter, but when it runs out I go right to layer ration. I've had no problems, and yrs back I raised game fowl where health was of utmost concern because they we're show/ sporting fowl. So if there was issues with health it would have shown up.

Of course my biddies rations are supplemented with a lot of greens and dog food. But by far they are fed nothing but layer rations. The only true value to starter rations IMO is the amprolium medication. Which many are against, but that's another subject.