Fully Developed Chicks Stuck in Eggs?

[Kalgurl12]

Hi all!

I'm new here and did a quick search of quail incubation, however I didn't see anything with quite my situation as I'm sure we all feel like our situation is the most unique lol!

So here's the story:

I got an incubator, a janoel 12 and 18 button quail eggs off of ebay. I put them in the incubator on January 12th and kept the temp about 99 degrees and humidity between 45-55. On day 14 (Jan 26th) I put them into lockdown and kept the humidity around 60-65. On day 16 four hatched during the night and one a couple hours later.

I still have 13 eggs left and the first 5 were early.. right? So I decided to wait until yesterday (Jan 30th), day 18 to candle the eggs. I decided why not learn from this experience. So my plan was to candle the eggs and then crack them open to see what had gone wrong so I could maybe prevent it in the future. Plus I heard about exploding eggs, what is that all about??

Well anyways, my 3rd egg cracking in and there is a chick! A fully formed chick, like it could have hatched in a day or 2. It filled about 3/4-7/8s of the egg shell. So today I read on BYC about the floating method and just did it. (We're down to 10 eggs) I would say all but 3 were low floaters, like 75% of the egg in the water.

So my questions are these:

I only opened the incubator during lockdown to get the humidity up or down and to get the chicks out. So I opened it maybe 5-6x in 3 days, each time for less than 15 seconds. Is that opening it too much?

Will any of the eggs I floated hatch? If yes, how long should I wait?

If no, what went wrong and is there anything I could have done differently? I heard about shrink wrapping, could someone explain that better? And is there any way to prevent a chick from facing the wrong way? Which end should the chicks head be?

What is the main cause of fully developed chicks not hatching?

Sorry for all the questions! I'm just looking to get it right the next time around! Thank you all!!

 

[fire370]

Early hatches to me are usually a cursor that the temp is higher than should be. So, my question is, did you verify that the temp and humidity were correct with a known calibrated external temp/humidity gauge? My guess is that your chicks died in the shell because of heat. My Coturnix hatch at 17.5 days like clock work and usually start pipping around 12 hrs prior. And once that first one comes out it’s on like donkey Kong for the rest of them.

Never ever trust that the controller is right on an incubator.

Once you know where your incubator controller runs at and get a few hatches under your belt it’ll all be old news. Keep at it!

 

[cosmosue]

Ok I have a Janoel 12 and I was disappointed at first but I’ve got it now, and I get really good Hatch rates usually 90-95-100% with both the Janoel and the other big one I have that is completely different.

On shipped eggs - did you let them rest for 24 hours upside down in an egg carton first before incubating them? I just use the drawer of a small table where the temps will remain room temp and not drafty.

Ok then I use a special egg solution I got for dipping eggs both for cleaning and eating and for incubation. I had a lot more success after using this or plain water to dip them and rehydrate them before placing them inside the incubator. I just place a few at a time in the water solution and when they sink I take them out. Sometimes I give them a little longer if they are sticking up a little on the bottom of the container.

After they air dry I place them inside and raise the humidity I use warm water every time I it needs to be filled.

I use a thermometer with probes for inside to make sure temp and humidity is ok.

On day 3 I candle all eggs to check for heartbeat. I leave all eggs even if nothing. On day 5-7 I repeat this. If the ones that had no heartbeat on day 3 are still empty I toss them by day 7. Everyone else stays.

I periodically check their progress by “spot checking” a few now and again.

On day 14 I up the humidity to around 80-85%. I also check all the eggs that day, remove or turn off egg turner and then it’s lockdown.

If none have pipped (made the tiny crack/hole) I may sometimes float them to give more hydration or just the ones that haven’t done it yet, I don’t always do this, if you do this you may also see some wiggling. I have a YouTube video of this floating thing with wigglers.

Ok so once on lockdown I continue to check through the sides of the incubator for signs of wiggling and pipping.

At first with the Janoel I was getting some hatched on day 17 some day 19 and it was annoying. The last batch I did 95% all hatched day 17 which makes it easier to remove all the chicks at once, there was still 3 eggs inside and I think only 1 made it out the other two after I was certain they were done for, I checked and they had slight deformities so I guess that explains their not hatching.

Anyway let’s say some hatched one day and some another and so forth. I have the brooder set up with the heat light. I will give them some time to fluff up a bit and also sometimes they call to the other eggs and the eggs peep back and that encourages the others to also hatch. But if things have gone quiet and it’s been a while I will remove all hatched chicks and place in brooder.

I do it super fast, and sometimes add more water if needed.

Anyway - what people mean by shrink wrapping is if an egg has pipped its shell and membrane and you open the incubator for too long the membrane may dry out and begin to shrink in on the baby. I’ve never had this happen inside the incubator - I’ve seen it happen only when I’ve had to get a baby out that I KNEW was stuck and they had pipped and already begun to unzip the shell but for some reason - maybe position I don’t know - they stopped, at this point if it’s been some hours I will step in, remove it, and open it myself over the sink, and place baby in the brooder. His fuzzy friends will crowd him and he will be nice and warm and fuzzy really really fast. While I was helping the few I helped yes the dry air did start to “shrink” around the baby and you gotta be quick. But I’ve not had it happen inside, the moisture that gets lost that might make the membrane a little tough usually softens back up by adding some warm water.

The exploding egg - I’ve never had this happen either BUT I know some people have said it did happen and it’s prettg gross lol.

This is why you candle around 3-5 days and then again in a few days after that. If an egg is not growing you should remove it, it is dead or not fertile or an early quitter whatever. By leaving it in the entire time it could technically “explode” causing a big disgusting mess inside the bator lol and also when chicks start hatching if it gets knocked around too much it might crack and leak and ewwwwww gross! LOL!

Many people who hatch REALLY big batches at farms and things they never bother with this they shut the incubator add water when needed and never even candle. I know a farmer that I got started with quail for meat processing and he doesn’t bother he just closes it and whatever hatches is what he gets. He doesn’t help chicks or anything like what many of us do.


Ok anyway that’s the shrinking and the exploding egg.

If I have any eggs left at day 20 I will usually sit and watch, maybe tap the side a bit see if they answer back, maybe whistle a little bit see if they peep at me... if there is zero activity I may take them out and investigate. The few times that happened I was pretty certain they had died inside and I was right. They were gone.

Now if you think one is gone and you begin to open it and see movement I would just place it back and wait some time. It could just be a slow one.


But on lockdown we try not to open as much as possible to keep steady humidity but there are times when you need to open it and in my experience and many others, this has not killed anyone, you go in, do your thing quick, and get back out. Lol.

Also there are some who won’t help a chick and that’s fine that’s their choice I’m not telling anyone what to do - but I choose to help them as I can’t help it, that’s if they NEED the help I don’t help them for fun as that could kill them if they are not ready. But if they are unzipping the shell already and they are ready to come out it’s usually safe to help if they get stuck.

I really kick myself - still - I don’t know why it’s been a while now but I had one who was stuck and I wasn’t 100% he was stuck I should have helped him I could have saved him but I hesitated. I slept on my office floor with a blanket to watch the incubator (I do this EVERY TIME I have a due hatch yes I am that crazy bird lady!) well I woke up and noticed he looked like he might be trying so I decided to set an alarm for 6am and help him if he still seemed stuck... I over slept, he died. I felt like such a jerk. I still do.


Anyway it wasn’t really anything I could help I was exhausted and nature does it’s thing and it is what it is. We can’t save every single one all the time.

But I will say this. In closing... as an experiment I put 6 eggs under a broody hen. Quail eggs. I didn’t even know if they were fertile I was just messing about. I know you don’t mix quail and chickens but I thought what the heck she’s broody I’ll use her rear end and see just for fun what happens and before the eggs hatch (if they do) I’ll take them out and lock them down myself in my own incubator...

Quail eggs are very forgiving - usually. She kicked them out of the nest either by accident or on purpose many times and I put them back. About 2 weeks in I checked them all. Couldn’t believe it 5 babies growing 1 dud. So I took them, I cleaned them well, I locked them down.

All 5 hatched, so she incubated them, I hatched them in the Janoel 12 lol. Even though she kicked them out of the nest several times and they were each slightly different in the amount they had developed (so some hatched before the others) they all still caught up and all hatched after just a few days and they became healthy fine adults lol.

What I learned here (which I never did the experiment again) is that they can be quite resilient. Even when my power was out for hours some eggs I was hatching in the Janoel 12 were fine, I submerged it in hot water in the tub up to the cover. The temps dropped to 89 maybe a bit lower. They were all fine.


If humidity seems to be evaporating quickly with yours simply wrap a towel around the base up to the lip of the cover - this will help seal the cover to the base and your humidity levels will stay up for longer. It does not effect my hatch.


So I’m sure people do things differently but this is how I personally do it and it’s really helped boost my hatch rates even for shipped eggs right now I had 24 shipped to me 2 cracked I put them in anyway. I’m at 21 now. 1 early quitter, 1 cracked early quitter, 1 too damaged but I tried anyway.

Just some tips I hope I helped if not I tried LOL

There is also a bunch of videos on YouTube about storing eggs for incubation and incubating and such maybe search for those? They helped me because that’s where I learned about dipping prior to incubation in a solution.

Good luck

 

[cosmosue]

But you should definitely candle if possible before lockdown because otherwise you have no idea if you are waiting on rotten eggs to hatch or live birds so I do it several times so I have a good idea what’s going on and how many I may get. If all hatch this time I should have 21 - my guess is since they are shipped eggs some may not hatch but I’ll be watching closely!!!

4 days til lockdown!

 

[cosmosue]

Sorry I wrote so much.

 

[Kalgurl12]

Thank you fire370! I did check to make sure the thermometer was correct and verified it against 4 other thermometers. My barometer though, I don't know how I could check that. Do you have any good brands you recommend?

Sorry I don't get on here everyday!

Cosmosue: Don't apologize! I greatly appreciate the advice!! it sounds like there's nothing I could have done then, especially that late in the process. But I learned a lot this time around. It sounds like I could have had my humidity even higher though if you keep yours at 80-85%! What do you normally keep the heat at? I actually did use a towel to keep it consistent and that helped a lot. I'm glad candling them 2x in the process doesn't hurt them too much because I was dying to look more but was afraid to have the eggs out for more than a minute!

It sounds like I was extremely lucky then since I didn't have any exploding eggs!! And than you for explaining shrink wrapping. I don't think that is what happened since none of the others had pipped externally. I thought it could happen even if pipping hadn't happened. That's awesome that you still get so excited for each hatch! I was at work when mine hatched So maybe that's why I didn't see the 2 full term ones struggle?

I just ordered some Coturnix quail eggs! While i did let the buttons rest for 24 hrs, I am now confused as to what everyone means by upside down. (This could possibly be the reason for my low hatch rate??) Are we talking end to end or side to side? And which side is upside down? I have not heard the washing them before they are put in the incubator before (only if they are dirty). What solution do you use?

What temp do you normally keep your eggs at? Do you think my 99 degrees at 45-55% humidity was good or start with lower humidity?

Thanks so much! Congrats on your hatch, I hope it all goes well!

 

[feedman77]

Humidity is very area specific. Relative for area, heating or cooling sources for your house.

I usually start with 20 to 25 percent humidity. Usually that means I'm dry incubating. I won't add any water til lockdown then I shoot for 70 percent for hatch.

I candle usually twice for quail eggs during incubation.

For temps in incubator I set at 100 f.
When setting eggs always set small end down.

 

[cosmosue]

Everyone is a little different for what works best for them, and also we have a lot of different models of incubators we all use, so it’s gonna vary greatly as the poster above me does it different than I do and it still works.

I also set top side down, same or “upside down” but that is while storing or resting shipped eggs. If I am storing them to hatch while I collect more I keep placing them in as I get them small end down in a small egg carton (you can buy online quail egg cartons very very cheap) and I keep them in a cool dry place, not like a fridge, but I have a drawer in a side table I use where it’s just room temp probably around 70-75 or something. It’s my egg drawer. I put shipped eggs there as well upside down for 24 hours before incubation.

I let the incubator run for a little while to make sure it’s running right. Some heat right up to the set temp some you gotta fiddle with. Just depends.

I set my large one to 99.5 but sometimes it’s running around 100, I set my small one to 99.7 because it runs a little cooler. But I have a thermometer inside by the eggs for each one anyway so I know what’s going on in there.

See now I DO add water, and I keep around 50-55% humidity. My house is VERY dry in winter omg it’s so bad and I have to run a cool air humidifier just for myself in my office so I can breath ok. That does not seem to help or have any effect on the incubators. Sometimes I wake up and the humidity has dropped down to 30 - and I do add a bit of water and I was adding room temp water the first couple times I did it and then I read to use warm water, so now I use warm. This would explain why during one of my first hatched I got extremely frustrated that the humidity refused to go above 60 for lockdown and I got so mad not knowing it should be warm water... my chicks still hatched and then the humidity got going about 1/2 into the hatch.

Eggs and chicks are pretty resilient within reason.

Anyway on lockdown I raise it to about 80 or so but I can’t tell exactly what it’s going to be when I close the top so sometimes it’s been as high as 95 other times it is 75-80. It varies.

I put a towel around it if I’m really having issues. I seem to lose a lot of humidity when it’s verg dry out (like the past couple months it’s so dry, even though it’s rained the air is dry)


Sometimes I wait to add water and raise it til later in the day if I know I will candle the eggs that day. Like today. Today I will candle later when it’s dark so I don’t have to shuffle eggs to the bathroom LOL. I’ll just wait til my office is dark enough.

I have a row away from the other eggs in the bator I call “death row” if eggs don’t look good and I’m not sure they they are alive they get moved to death row. I check them in a few days if they are ok I place them back closer to the rest, if they are dead I take them out. It’s just a row near the back, it’s just a few inches away, so I know which ones I’m keeping a closer eye on.


It’s just the way I do it, someone else will do it differently. I get very good hatch rates even with shipped eggs so I stick with the method I have developed and worked on.

And you will also find what is best for your bator and your area/room you use, and your eggs.