Fully formed chicks in eggs under 2 hens never hatched.

[Nonnapoo]

For the second time this summer my legbar and silkie went broody at the same time. They sat on their eggs together, sometimes on top of each other, and had 2 chicks hatch. They then co-parented those babies! Only 2 survivors each time. I opened the eggs that did not hatch and almost all had fully formed chicks inside. I allowed extra days for hatching until the moms finally kicked the eggs out of the nest. What is happening?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

There could be a lot of different things happening. Community nest incubation with multiple birds never had much success here. Som eggs end up getting chilled at some point. Depending on ambient temperature and stage of incubation, that doesn't have to be very long to spell disaster for an embryo. Occasionally one or more eggs doesn't get turned properly. A single hen in a single nest tends to be vigilant that all eggs are turned and safely tucked under her. But in a community situation, they just pay attention to having some of the eggs, not all the eggs. I once had some young birds in a brooder house that I hadn't assigned to proper adult housing. I removed most of the cockerels once they started breeding. I left all the pullets behind because I wasn't brooding new chicks and I wasn't diligently proactive. The pullets started laying eggs in one large nest they made. Almost immediately 7 of the 9 pullets went broody all at once and the 8th sat with them occasionally. They were sitting on 26 eggs. One hatched. I should have kept track of that chick into adulthood to observe its personality. I imagined it would have been strange. Maybe even psychotic because all 7 pullets tried to mother the chick and constantly called it to each of them. Again, I should have been more proactive and put that chick with one mother in another building but I had too much going on. Ideally, when I had a dedicated broody hen, I put her in her own apartment with a single nest and her own food and water. I could then just ignore her till the eggs hatched. Then I would move her and the chicks back to her flock after they were about 3 days old. I only had three of those broody apartments at the time. I didn't know what to do with 7 dedicated setters, so I did nothing and ended up with one additional chicken.
All that said, there could be other issues. There is a myriad of reasons embryos fail after day 18. I'll list a few here. Breeder age, breeder genetics, breeder fertility and one that most people don't consider is breeder nutrition. Layer feed is adequate for body maintenance and egg production but insufficient to carry an embryo to full term with enough vigor to escape the shell.

 

[Debbie292d]

All I raise/breed are silkies.

Silkies are supposed to make good mothers and are very broody as you probably know and usually they do. I have been incubating for a few years as I got tired of raising their chicks they left free-ranging at 4-6 weeks old and nowhere to live as they got pecked in the coop and no momma to protect them.

Fast forward a few years and I let them hatch the last batch of the year. I had two hens on them too. Five hatched and a sixth egg was left in the nest. One of them pushed it over the edge out of the nest. The next day I found it on the floor. That's a 2.5 foot fall onto wood as this was in our breeding pen's hutch. It was ice cold but a miracle it didn't break.

I put it in the incubator and it hatched the next day. It's not normal and I'm dealing with it but just letting you know, since this keeps happening to you, it might be a good idea to get an incubator. Then if it happens again, you can take those they push out, put them in the incubator, hatch them, and give them back to the mommas.

 

[Nonnapoo]

Yes, my silkie loves being a momma and does a great job. Before i got a rooster, I bought chicks and put under her a couple times when she was broody. I actually don't have room for anymore chickens right now so this will be the last time i will let my girls hatch any chicks for awhile. Thanks for your response.

 

[Nonnapoo]

There could be a lot of different things happening. Community nest incubation with multiple birds never had much success here. Som eggs end up getting chilled at some point. Depending on ambient temperature and stage of incubation, that doesn't have to be very long to spell disaster for an embryo. Occasionally one or more eggs doesn't get turned properly. A single hen in a single nest tends to be vigilant that all eggs are turned and safely tucked under her. I once had some young birds in a brooder house that I hadn't assigned to proper adult housing. I removed most of the cockerels once they started breeding. I left all the pullets behind because I wasn't brooding new chicks and I wasn't diligently proactive. The pullets started laying eggs in one large nest they made. Almost immediately 7 of the 9 pullets went broody all at once and the 8th sat with them occasionally. They were sitting on 26 eggs. One hatched. I should have kept track of that chick into adulthood to observe its personality. I imagined it would have been strange. Maybe even psychotic because all 7 pullets tried to mother the chick and constantly called it to each of them. Again, I should have been more proactive and put that chick with one mother in another building but I had too much going on. Ideally, when I had a dedicated broody hen, I put her in her own apartment with a single nest and her own food and water. I could then just ignore her till the eggs hatched. Then I would move her and the chicks back to her flock after they were about 3 days old. I only had three of those broody apartments at the time. I didn't know what to do with 7 dedicated setters, so I did nothing and ended up with one additional chicken.
All that said, there could be other issues. There is a myriad of reasons embryos fail after day 18. I'll list a few here. Breeder age, breeder genetics, breeder fertility and one that most people don't consider is breeder nutrition. Layer feed is adequate for body maintenance and egg production but insufficient to carry an embryo to full term with enough vigor to escape the shell.

Wow, I bet your little chick with 7 moms was overwhelmed! Fortunately my two moms each claimed one of the 2 chicks even though they free ranged and slept together. Very interesting dynamic! Anyhow i plan to take your advice about community nest incubation. It sounds like that might be the problem. Its just so sweet watching them coparent! Thanks so much for the information.

 

[Nonnapoo]

What feed do you recommend instead of layer feed?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Anything other than layer is better than layer. Starter/grower or all flock. Setting hens aren't laying eggs at the time so they are no longer layers. The chicks can't handle the 4% calcium in the layer feed. Non-laying hens and roosters shouldn't eat it either. Very hard on the kidneys.
Any bird not actively laying (whether female or not) is not a layer and shouldn't have layer feed.

 

[Debbie292d]

What feed do you recommend instead of layer feed?

We feed Kalmbach's Flock Maker to every bird here, from day old to old.

It's 20% protein and silkies do better on it. It's lower in calcium, so I put a dish of oyster shell in the coop and in the breeder pens. Don't let young chicks have access to the oyster shell though. I believe I have three of those six a month old now, suffering from calcium toxicity.

 

[Perris]

I opened the eggs that did not hatch and almost all had fully formed chicks inside.

The death of fully formed chicks is distinct from early embryonic death, most of whose causes ChickenCanoe listed. It sounds like your chicks were late embryo mortality (within the last 3 days before expected hatch), aka dead in shell (abbreviated DIS). Causes for this are typically the chick didn't get in the right position to hatch, didn't transition to breathing air properly, didn't absorb the yolk properly, or wasn't strong enough to break through the shell - if the shells are relatively thick, this is more likely to explain a high DIS rate than the other reasons which are more idiosyncratic and typically apply to a only small percentage of hatching eggs.

If there was a lethal spike up or down in temperature or humidity, one would expect all the eggs to fail, not just most of them (though you don't say how many eggs were set in either case), but they are potential causes of late stage mortality too.

 

[Nonnapoo]

Anything other than layer is better than layer. Starter/grower or all flock. Setting hens aren't laying eggs at the time so they are no longer layers. The chicks can't handle the 4% calcium in the layer feed. Non-laying hens and roosters shouldn't eat it either. Very hard on the kidneys.
Any bird not actively laying (whether female or not) is not a layer and shouldn't have layer feed.

Thanks! I didn't realize this.