Fussy eater/ little drinking - Hen "sort-of" egg bound

[Aschuchert]

I've posted about the egg bound issue previously. In Phoenix Az - 6Mo. old Crested Cream Legbar 4.4lbs, 1 week ago we noticed her becoming very lethargic and discovered she's got an abnormal 1st egg, she still hasn't laid. Bottom of pecking order - with bully hens keeping her from food and water.

To Summarize:
She went into isolation coop 8 days ago when we 1st noticed her stress. Took her to a vet Tuesday. She's not completely egg bound since her digestive system is still functional, Vet couldn't/wouldn't retrieve the egg without surgery. I agree natural egg laying is better. Hen has got an infection, abdominal swelling, and is on antibiotics and anti-inflammatory meds to address. Also oral calcium supplement to help encourage the egg along. Started those on Friday. She went through 3 days of vent straining (graphic to say the least) but that has subsided.

As expected, she's not very hungry and drinking little. I know antibiotics can cause digestive issues so we've added probiotics to help combat those effects, but can only do those if she eats.

Looking for suggestions beyond what I've seen posted elsewhere for ill hens. Tried cooked eggs, liver, mash of pellet food, freeze dried meal worms, and oats. All with and without various supplements (olive oil, oregano oil, apple cider vinegar, probiotics, electrolytes) and she snubs all versions.

I am concerned about balancing her systems need to "work out the egg" with her need to eat to get healthy and fight infection. Can we really let her go without food (though making it available), what time frame? She's maybe drinking 1/2 a cup to 1 cup a day, it's about 90 here already, that's extremely low as well.

I am reduced to tube feeding/watering her and want to suggestions on minimizing that stress as well, need her to feel safe so she'll get to laying that egg and getting healthy.
She misses her flock and when free ranging she goes to them - even sneaking into the coop while the older hens are grazing.

I appreciate the time everyone takes to read and suggest alternatives that we haven't tried before.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I would pen her where she can still be seen by the flock. I personally would let her be and see how it goes. The more you mess with her the more she stresses. I'm unsure if you can lube up her vent to ease her laying.

@Wyorp Rock any thoughts?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Do you have a photo of the x-ray by any chance? I'm not a vet, but just sort of curious as to where the egg is located and what it looks like.

Does the "egg" inside her look like a normal hard shelled egg or a egg "shape". I wonder if she has Salpingitis or "Lash Egg" and that is what the vet saw?

As for tube feeding her you can use something like Kaytee baby bird formula or a finely ground soupy mixture of her normal feed - very good info here https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...res-under-construction.1064392/#post-18827506

Salpingitis:
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/salpingitis-lash-eggs-in-backyard/
http://www.the-chicken-chick.com/causes-of-lash-eggs-salpingitis-by/

 

[Aschuchert]

I don't have xrays, super spendy and wasn't hard to feel around the egg. It feel normal, hard shelled, sized and shape this morning. What we suppose is that it's torn through her uterus and logged in her abdominal cavity. Her ability to poop also leads me to believe its not a good situation - not lodged in her passage in a classic egg bound way.
I can feel a membrane between it and my finger. So I applied Vaseline and vetricyn to help ease the area, should it be she's just got so small a passage it's stuck, that is the limit what I can do + hydrating and feeding her.
While surgery may be able to retrieve it it doesn't guarantee shell be able to lay again. I can get 20 new chicks and raise them to her age for the cost of surgery - that's 10 years (4 batches of 5 birds) of laying hens for the same price. The goal is to have laying happy hens, so while its sad, unless she can pass it on her own she's got a short time.
We've supported her ability to rest, heal, and work through this but she may just have enough bodily defects that she's not able to survive as a laying hen. We have a full flock to think about, and the strain it puts on our own relationship.

Thanks for the support and advice, we are only 5 years into owning chickens and still have lots to learn. Everyone here is so supportive and we are starting to be knowledgeable enough on some items to contribute as well.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

It feel normal, hard shelled, sized and shape this morning. What we suppose is that it's torn through her uterus and logged in her abdominal cavity. Her ability to poop also leads me to believe its not a good situation - not lodged in her passage in a classic egg bound way.

I can feel a membrane between it and my finger.

I do understand the $$$ part.

It's possible that the egg tore through and lodged in the abdominal cavity.
Another is what I call "internal laying" this is where a whole egg or parts of the egg can actually travel in reverse up the oviduct and drop into the abdominal cavity. Either way, it's there. If you feel a "membrane" between the egg and your finger, that is probably the intestines or reproductive tract. If it is indeed in the abdomen, the only way to get that out would be with surgery. Surgery in chickens is not something that is done that much at all, most will die from the anesthesia.

A chicken with an egg in the abdomen can still poop a lot of times. When infection sets in and the internal organs become inflamed, if fluid builds up or the body starts to add layers of "coating" to the mass or egg-those are what block the intestines prohibiting a hen to poop.

Sadly, I feel you are doing everything you can for her.

I used to have a link bookmarked where a member posted a necropsy of thier hen - they did indeed have a whole shelled egg in the abdomen along with yolks. If I run across it, I will post the link.

If you happen to lose your girl, sending her to your state lab for necropsy or even performing an informal one yourself would provide you with some answers. Not always an easy thing to do, but I've found by investigating further, that it is educational and I also take comfort in making the decision to let the sweet girl go. Once you see these things in person, you just have more respect for your hens and what they do.

******Warning****** Necropsy photos
This is the closest I found - the OP felt that maybe a tumor or egg was floating in the belly, it was salpingitis - these lash eggs can form as an egg in the oviduct.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/fluid-in-belly-with-egg-floating.1202391/
Same poster - she made a video of what she saw on post#347 here https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-necropsy-photos.823961/page-35#post-19084262

 

[Aschuchert]

Thanks, again BYC is the best support team. Idk if time this weekend will permit a home necropsy, or the spouse as he's a bit squeamish about it all. I feel it's a good learning tool as well.

All the best

 

[Aschuchert]

WARNING _ GRAPHIC NECROPSY PHOTO ATTACHED !!! We found it in us to euthanize the pullet last night, that occurred without incident. I did a necropsy and found the egg had torn through her oviduct and numerous fatty deposits on all her organs. I don't think she had a chance. Now I need to find out why the fatty organs, she was fed organic layer pellets and as lowest in pecking order she certainly didn't get the best of the treats (greens and chopped veggies). I'm starting my research tomorrow but welcome any input or suggestions.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

WARNING _ GRAPHIC NECROPSY PHOTO ATTACHED !!! We found it in us to euthanize the pullet last night, that occurred without incident. I did a necropsy and found the egg had torn through her oviduct and numerous fatty deposits on all her organs. I don't think she had a chance. Now I need to find out why the fatty organs, she was fed organic layer pellets and as lowest in pecking order she certainly didn't get the best of the treats (greens and chopped veggies). I'm starting my research tomorrow but welcome any input or suggestions.

I'm sorry for your loss

Well done on investigating further.

I agree with you that she has quite a bit of fat at 6mos old. Was the liver pale and greasy looking or just covered in fat?

As to how she accumulated fat, that can be harder to know. Here's just some of my thoughts on birds having excess fat, but do your research and hopefully others will chime in:

• Checking your feed would be the first step. I see that you feed organic, but it's in pellet form-some birds will pick out and only eat pieces they love if the organic is "loose" (you see the peas/corn/grains) but with pellets, that wouldn't be the case. Compare your analysis to some of the "popular" commercial feeds like Purina, Naturewise, etc. - I am not saying switch, just look at protein/fat % for comparison - I would think they are likely very similar.
  
• Too many treats can dilute the nutritional content of what you feed, limit those to 5-10%.
  
• I do feel that some birds/breeds are genetically predisposed to have more fat, they are not as active. I have not run across that much fat yet in my hens, but I did notice that one of my girls had more fat than a couple of others-looking back, she was a much more docile, laid back bird that was not quite as active. She was also a "heavy" breed.
  
• This is also a thought-she may have not felt well for quite some time. Birds hide illness the best they can. She may have been going about trying to act "normal" but really was not as active as she appeared therefore fat was not being "burned off". Again, that may play into the above point - is she just docile or just doesn't feel that great.

Thank you for taking the time to post the photo, I do hope that others chime in with their thoughts and suggestions. I'll tag a few @Eggcessive @dawg53 @coach723

 

[dawg53]

I agree with Wyorp Rock, she said it all in her post. A 6 month old hen with fatty organs leads me to believe it's possibly a diet and genetic issue.
Sorry for your loss.

 

[coach723]

X3, everything Wyorp Rock said. I'm very sorry for your loss.