Future planning...

AndieFI

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We are house hunting and when I start to get overly frustrated with where we are at I start planning my new garden which WILL include chickens! I have been doing a LOT of research on breeds and set ups but don't know anyone locally to ask so here we go... My current garden is 35ft by 75ft and that is almost too small so the new one may be bigger, it will be completely fenced 6ft or greater in height due to the deer here in PA who think everything we plant is for them. My idea is to incorporate the permanent coop in one side so (using chicken wire I can fence in the actual rows I don't want them to eat) they can have the run of the garden and help me weed and debug. The other side I could open when I was home so they could free range (coyote issues...). What I can never find anywhere is a ratio of coop size to chickens, we really don't eat that many eggs here so I don't want to over winter a bunch or have too big a coop and have to heat it. But we want sustainable meat (no buying chick's every year) so it needs to be big enough to house everyone in the summer. I have yet to make my fence small mammal proof.
Now the breeds question. Keep in mind this is a woman who was attacked by a small flock of RIRs when she was little so I have this irrational aversion to anything that looks like them. Wanting meat with a modest number of eggs combined with being able to over winter with up to 3ft of snow (yes I will be snowblowing the garden for them...) good w sm kids and nonRIR looking with a crow that doesnt carry too far, I think I narrowed it down to either Brahmas or possibly orpingtons. But with sooo many heritage breeds to choose from I was wondering if I missed any possibilities. I thought w either of these breeds I could keep 6 hens w 1 roo and fulfill all we wanted. Am I completely off in any of this rambling? I would love any input!
 
I see a long road ahead of you to fulfill all your desires. First you want to eat chickens and then you want to keep 6 hens and a roo. I see you getting a lot of your chickens at the grocery store at these numbers. There are many factors to consider. If you want to eat many of your chickens , then here is what you will need. Large coop.. many chickens,, large run as well. many bags of feed. LOTS OF WORK, and desire to process your own chickens. Meat birds are the ideal ones if you plan to eat them. Short grow time period. and tender meat. The heritage breeds you mention, are dual purpose birds. That means you utilize them for laying eggs and eat them when they are not productive . The meat is considered "" the lesser cuts "" compared to meat birds. Don't get offended, I did not say BAD. The dual purpose are usually ready to eat after 2 years of laying. It may take you a while to get all things working on a schedule where you have birds at different stages of life and purpose. Now you will need a large coop to house these chickens and some roosters , possibly with partitions. The rule of thumb in size is 4 square feet per chicken. If you were to keep 30 chickens, which is the number I think would suit your needs, then your coop wold need to be approximately 10 feet x 12 feet. and at least walk in height with plenty of ventilation.
I wish you the best and also
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Ask any questions you may have because help is only a keyboard away. And there are so many here wit so much combined knowledge.
 
(I've never raised any of my birds to eat, but here goes...)

If you're going to eat them then that will be your downfall. Chickens that are raised in a coop and free run can be tough to chew and thin, they're not like the factory chickens who are forced in one tiny spot and are obese...

I would honestly in my humble opinion start out raising them for their eggs until the numbers grow.

Rirs are one of the best to raise for eggs, but since you have an aversion to them I would go with buff Orpingtons.
Now take in mind usually those breeds are for eggs, for meat you'd need to look into broilers.

If you are indeed still looking to house egg layers and meaties, you will need a pretty big sized coop, maybe keep one side just for the meaties.
Tip its best to not let the meaties run as much, keep them semi confined so they will get nice and plump...

Make sure the coop is fully fenced in with chicken wire, food, water, and an eggbox some place to stay warm and dry.

You'll definitely need your garden fenced in, some chickens will tear gardens up.

I have 40+ chickens, and the rirs are the only ones that may be big enough to eat, not that I would... So again any chicken that has the chance to run around will be slender, and the meat does get tough with age and so forth.
I'd recommend housing at least 30+ chickens, that may seem like a lot, but not really especially since you intend to eat some. Ideally 50 would be even better.
 
Instead of fencing rows in your garden, it would be better (in my opinion) to create two runs that can be entered by the coop. One year, one side is the garden, that fall, let your hens into that side. The following spring, plant in the run that the chickens were in the summer before. Easy to do with a gate.

As for long term plans, well, one does not have to do it all in year one. If you work into this, it works best. Start by getting eggs, then by eating stewing hens and young roosters. Unless you only eat meat once a month, it is hard to get enough meat in a backyard set up.

BO will give you a great start, they are a great bird. More than likely, you will get one to go broody, and you and your family can raise chicks, which is fun. You can make soup out of them as time goes by, and eat the young roosters.

They are a great place to start. However, I have not seen a long term poster on this forum, that made a plan years ago, and did not change it as they got experience. That's ok!

Mrs K
 
We need to talk. My basic laying/breeding flock is one rooster and seven hens. My main purpose for having chickens is for meat. The eggs are just a nice side benefit though I need them for hatching. I’ve found a food bank that gladly takes the excess above what I use for eating and hatching or give to friends and relatives. There are times I get a lot of eggs, especially when I am evaluating which pullets to keep as replacements.

As far as breeds go, practically any dual purpose breed will work. Sixty or seventy years ago certain breeds were developed for meat but with the development of the Cornish Cross broilers those have not been bred for meat in many decades. As far as meat goes there is not that much difference in any of the dual purpose breeds you get from most of the hatcheries these days. What I suggest is that you start out with a fairly large number of chicks of different breeds that would be acceptable and breed the ones you like while eating the others. For your purposes there is no reason to keep all the same breed. My flock is mixed breed. Part of the fun of hatching for me is to see what strange or different combinations of color and pattern I get.

Since you are afraid of red chickens do not get any red or buff chickens. Those have the “gold” gene and after a generation or two you could get red chickens. There are a lot of white, black, and barred dual purpose chickens out there that should work fine for you.

You need to decide how many chickens you eat in a year. With trips to relatives, going to an occasional play, eating out or with friends, and vacations my number is 40. Look at freezer space too. My garden is 50’ x 75’ and with all the additional fruit and berries I have freezer space is at a premium. That’s one big reason I don’t do meaties. Those have to be butchered at a certain age and I just don’t have freezer space for that. I can leave my dual purpose chickens walking around until freezer space opens up. I do have to feed them but they forage a lot so it’s not too bad.

You can cook and eat any chicken of any age or sex and they can be tender and delicious. It’s all in how you cook them. The older they are the slower and moister you need to cook them. I’ve cooked very old roosters and had them come out delicious. I’ll cook a five month old cockerel this afternoon in one of those ceramic baking dishes that has a lid with a good seal. He’s been thawing in the fridge since Sunday. I’ll rinse him off but not dry him, coat him in herbs, basil, oregano, and maybe parsley, then cook him for about 2-1/2 hours at 250 degrees Fahrenheit. If he were an old rooster I might make coq au vin, stew him, chicken and dumplings, or cook him this way but at 240 degrees for maybe 4 hours.

Home grown chickens are older than the broilers when you process them and do require different cooking methods than the 8 to 10 week old chicks you buy at the store. They can have more texture and flavor which puts some people off. But if you know how to cook them, they can be delicious and tender. Since you plan to hatch them mainly to eat, you will be eating as many pullets as cockerels.

Is your garden raised beds or just an area that you plant in rows? There are different techniques to handle different types. There are different ways to handle different gardens and different growing seasons. Mts. K hit on a fairly good one, partition your garden off into sections and use one section for a run while the other sections are used for food production. It doesn’t have to be halves, it can be thirds or some other division. You are only limited by our imagination. Let the chickens have one run until fall, then after harvest move them to a new section and let the one they were in lay fallow until spring. The manure will have degraded to where it is safe to plant in. Fall is also a good time to clean out your coop and put the bedding on the garden so it is ready to plant in the spring.

To raise enough chickens for meat with only one rooster and six or seven hens you need an incubator. Even if you have hens that go broody a lot you are not likely to get enough chicks depending on broodies. If they do go broody a lot you may have trouble getting enough eggs to incubate. Figure out how many you need to hatch and set up a schedule of hatching and brooding them yourself to get what you need. I normally hatch about 15 to 20 in February/March then play it by ear. If I get enough broodies later I’m Ok but if not I hatch and brood a second time.

Every year I keep three or four replacement pullets, keep the previous year’s pullets over winter, and eat the oldest hens when they molt in the fall and stop laying. This keeps my flock young and laying well.

Build your facilities big. Although my basic flock is eight chickens I seldom have just eight. Most summers I top out at about 40 chickens of various ages at one time. Even during the winter I often carry fifteen or more total. It just depends on when my last hatch for the season is. You have to stay flexible. You might follow the link in my signature below for my thoughts on space needs. I don’t give you hard and fast numbers that you absolutely need to follow, just things to think about. We are each so unique there is no one magic number that really covers us all.

I also suggest you build extra facilities. A separate grow-out coop with its own run and right next to the main coop so they can see each other has come in really handy. The extra flexibility that gives you makes it so much easier to handle problems. I also built my brooder as a permanent part of the main coop. As long as you have electricity to your coop you can keep them out of the house and that helps integration tremendously. For your stated goals build big and build to be flexible. As Mrs. K said, plans do change as you gain experience.

Something else. You will probably be integrating a lot. Be generous in roost space. I’m not talking about so many linear inches per chicken but more about spreading the roosts out a bit. Chickens can be pretty brutal to younger/weaker chickens on the roosts so they need a safe place to go that is not the nests. I put up a separate roost, lower than the main roosts, higher than the nests, and separated horizontally from the main roosts so the weaker have a safe place to go that is not the nests.

That’s enough rambling this morning. Hope you get something beneficial from it.
 
Check out the Light Sussex breed. And I think you need 10 to 12 hens per each rooster so the girls won't get over-mated and injured.
 
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I'm so glad Ridgerunner posted, he was exactly who I was thinking of while reading your post!

My only other thought is to maybe consider something like Dixie Rainbows or Pioneers. I don't know if they're too "red" for your comfort level, but they're a more meat based bird. Orps might not be a bad choice, but with the Brahmas I think you'd have to wait a year on a male to get much more than bone on the carcass, they're very slow to mature and reach full weight.

Also, you don't need to heat your coop, no matter how large it is and how few birds you have. Yep, even with your cold temps and snow, the birds will be fine. the extra space will actually help dissipate moisture in the air, and dry is so much more important for their health than warm.
 
Thank you this is exactly what I needed and why I asked! As for texture of meat I have read what you all wrote in various other places as well and quite frankly we have quit buying grocery store chicken all together as we are tired of feeling like we are eating a sponge with lots of fat! We much prefer the wild game bird texture and taste. As for freezer space that is a wild card as well depending on the number of deer we have to fit in it. And why I was looking at dual purpose breeds so if I can't fit them in they mature more slowly (so I've read) so I have more leeway. We actually have a commercial hatchery within 10 miles of us and I was thinking when I was ready I might get a mixed bag of chicks and see what I like and what I dont. The dividing the garden in half idea was great! I can't really explain the RIR thing but it isn't the color I love red on other breeds.. I know it's weird.
 
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Thank you this is exactly what I needed and why I asked! As for texture of meat I have read what you all wrote in various other places as well and quite frankly we have quit buying grocery store chicken all together as we are tired of feeling like we are eating a sponge with lots of fat! We much prefer the wild game bird texture and taste. As for freezer space that is a wild card as well depending on the number of deer we have to fit in it. And why I was looking at dual purpose breeds so if I can't fit them in they mature more slowly (so I've read) so I have more leeway. We actually have a commercial hatchery within 10 miles of us and I was thinking when I was ready I might get a mixed bag of chicks and see what I like and what I dont. The dividing the garden in half idea was great! I can't really explain the RIR thing but it isn't the color I love red on other breeds.. I know it's weird.
Do you have a pressure canner? Canned chicken is delicious! It's a good way to process your spent hens, as they tenderize during the canning process. (I also can venison and beef together - about a 50-50 mix) Canned chicken is so handy to have on hand. You can make chicken soup, chicken salad, chicken hot dish, chicken sandwiches, chicken salad, chicken enchiladas.... Next week when we have company, I plan on trying a chicken alfredo lasagna recipe. One of our favorite in-a-hurry meals is canned chicken and rice. Just warm the chicken and broth, and put it over cooked rice.

I think getting a mix of birds from the hatchery is a good idea so you can compare them.

Your fear of RIRs is not weird if you were attacked by them as a child. I have a cousin who was scared by birds (they flew out of a pine tree right past her face when she was in a stroller) and is to this day terrified of anything with a beak.
 

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