Genetic Hackle; AKA "Fly Tying Chickens" Info for the interested.

[Penturner]

Just some other info for the curious or interested. As far as questions about crossing for color variations longer feathers, longer tails or that sort of stuff. If your interest is as yard ornaments or trying to introduce some of the traits of these birds to your lines. anything is possible. But when it comes to breeding for fly tying purposes it is a bit of a broad street on that question. First of all realize that most flies are made according to a pattern or Recipe. And that recipe is formulated from a living insect and a persons attempt to imitate it. The Hackle produces is attempting to fill the need for those specific colors and looks. Colors matter and will very from location to location. For example a Blue Dunn colored feather that works well for Yellowstone National Park will not be the correct shade of blue for the Snake River in California. This is true for every type of feather produced whether they be Grizzly, Ginger, Dunn, or any other natural color. So having a flock that produces a consistent pattern but a variety of color tone within limits is a good thing. but you do not want completely different colors. Ultimately you would want an overall flock that produces top grade necks across the spectrum of color tones so that everyone can look at your collection and find something they are happy with.To hit that high dollar mark for necks would require not only producing a top quality neck of feathers. Which in itself has a long list of requirements. But that you produce it in the right color range for the person that is serious enough about the quality of their flies to pay that $150 for a neck. A top quality Grey Jungle Fowl neck, Known to fly tyers as a Jungle Cock Eye. can sell for as much as $400. But to give you an example of what ti takes to sell such a neck. First you need at least a dozen of your finest examples. you would send all those to your customer and they would be able to pick the one they want from them and return the 5 they do not want along with payment for the one they keep. a lot of work and risk that in truth validates the amount of money you stand to make. I intend to start my hackle breeding program with the grey jungle fowl mainly because I already have a market for the feather even if they are low quality.
as for hens and all those lesser quality feathers. there are uses for them as well. Dry Fly Hackle feathers seem to be the hardest to come buy I suppose because the requirements for them are harder to produce. for Hackles that do no live up to the needs of Dry Flies, they are then considered for wet flies or streamers. but there are many many uses of feathers but many are more common and worth probably less than it costs to produce them. I know you can buy dyed hen saddles for just a few dollars. The breeder of Hackle Chickens is really stuck in the middle between a customer that is looking for an exact color of paint for example, and the limitations of what his sources can provide. Producing hackles is not easy, will require the production of hundreds of "Waste" or lower quality feathers in order to get that occasional diamond in the rough. when you see it you need to be able to recognize it though and that is pay day.
Hope some of that helps give you a since of the bigger picture of why Hackle feathers would be such a big deal.

 

[thehackleguy]

"First of all realize that most flies are made according to a pattern or Recipe. And that recipe is formulated from a living insect and a persons attempt to imitate it. "

Although this is true, I have been tying flies (and fishing with them) for over 20 years and I use a varietiy of colors in the same area. In fact some of the most sought after hackle is one-of-a-kind capes and saddles that have a variety of shades and colors because they represent something "different". Many times a washed out dun or ginger color can represent an injured or "wet" insect and therefore easy prey. The seasoned fly tyer is ALWAYS looking for that special "different" colored cape or saddle. That being said, the beginner and intermediate tyers usually tie to specific patterns and don't deviate to much because they are proven to work.

I produce less than 100 roosters per year, this is one of my best from last year. His saddles are 30+ inches and are still growing, infact they never stop growing! He has Onagandori blood in him and his saddles have been growing with out stop for a year and a half so far. MOST of my birds produce great feathers with only a very small percent making up non-dry fly quality feathers.


AKA: Bluedun, I had to re-register because I couldn't remember my password

 

[Penturner]

You are correct that color does not matter to the fish. So in practice you will get results. But fish do not buy feathers. Keeping the fly tier happy is another issue. That is if you sell them. And what is desired in one area is not what is in Vogue in another. Sort of a pointless curse.

 

[Hennypen]

This is ibe if my Silver Pencil Plymouth Rock roosters. Are these feathers good for fly tying?
How do you grade the feather quality?

 

[chrisf]

Very interesting birds. I also raise birds with Onagadori in their bloodlines that have saddles over 30in. as well. I really like some of the colors that you represent.........................................................................chrisf

 

[wayne86]

Quote:
I don't know about fly tying but those are some very nice Silver Penciled Rocks! Do you raise many? Show at all?
Jonathan

 

[Hennypen]

These are my first chickens. 2 roos and 3 hens. The one roo is just plain mean and attacked the one on the left. He's currently recooperating in the house. I may show the roo on the left once he recovers. But yes, they are beautiful and I will definitely have chicks soon.

 

[gumbii]

WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...




i think i'm gonna order some eggs... i already sent them an email...

 

[gino]

Quote:
There are a lot of qualities that a fly tier looks for in hackle, among them are color, size, thickness, stem, webbing, and length. I'll try to go through them the best I can. I do fish a little more than the average person and probably tie a little more, but this just my opinion.

Color is dependent on the fly I tying. As mentioned in your article flies are intended to match a bug that the fish are eating. Just like you know better than to eat green bread, fish are not easily fooled by brown hackled blue-winged-olives. In the case of a grey jungle fowl, the prize feathers are those that are usually used to create the illusion of an eye, usually on a streamer type fly.

Size is important. Getting the right size is important. If you went to the super market and there was an eight foot watermelon there, you might find it unbelievable. Fish are no different. The fish are not easily fooled by an imitation that is either too big of too small. Back in the day it was really hard to find small hackle and today I still pay a premium for small hackle (size 20-22). A newer phenomenon is that larger sized hackle (size 5-10) is getting hard to find because everyone is trying to breed the small stuff. Both neck and saddle hackle will vary from chicken to chicken and sometimes it will vary greatly on the same chicken.

Personally, there are times that I prefer a hackle with a variety of sizes on the same chicken. For instance if I’m going to tie a caddis fly with brown hackle I’ll only want about 8 feather per size (8 size 12’s, 8 size 14’s, 8 size 16’s, and 8 size 18). In this case I want to buy a hackle that has all different sizes. On the other hand if I’m tying one of my favorite flies like the Renegade, I will tie up two or three dozen in size 16 and I would want a hackle that had only that size.

Thickness of the hackle refers to the individual barbs on a feather. If you take a hackle feather and bend you will see what I mean. Typically the more individual barbs on the feather and the tighter they are the better. This way I don’t have wrap the hackle a bunch of times to get the affect I’m looking for. Think of the thickness in the way that men go bald: envision the mop of hair that an eight year old has in comparison to say Donald Trump. You don’t want Donald Trump Hackle.

The stem of the hackle is very important. You want it to be both small and strong. It should be small so that it will wrap around the hook with the minimal amount of bulking up. When the hackle is wrapped around the hook the stem should be invisible. Likewise if the stems are too thin you loose strength, and nothing hurts more than to break your hackle off while trying to wrap it. Fly fishermen face this problem with lines that they use to tie the fly on with (known as tippets). If its too bulky the fish see it and it scares them off and if its too thin they catch the fish, but the fish breaks the line. Just the Goldie Locks, it has to be just right.

The next two items are closely related: Webbing and Length. If you look at hackle feathers and bend them as you move your finger toward the skin, you will notice that the feather start getting very thick the closer you get to the chicken skin. This very thick part is called the webbing. Now forget what I said about thickness earlier…o.k. this type of thickness is not good for dry flies. What happens is the webbing when used on a dry fly actually absorbs water, turning your dry fly into a wet fly. Not good. The less webbing the better. Also it depends on how long the feathers are: I will be fine with a lot of webbing toward the base if the hackle is long enough to get a lot of flies out of it. Longer hackle feathers are good.

There are other feature that make for a better hackle, one of the most important is how “waxy” the feathers are. On the of the desirable characteristics of Grey Jungle Fowl is that their feathers are very waxy. This will prevent them from becoming water logged and will give that extra sparkle that fish like. This is also the reason that rooster feathers are used for dry flies and hens are used for wet flies. The rooster hackle actually repels the water while the hen feather tends to absorb it.

Probably the best thing to do is to go a local fly shop and look at their hackle. Take it out of the bag and bend a few feathers. Look at the features I described and compare less expensive hackles to more expensive. Talk to your shop owner and ask his opinion. My guess is that you may have some hackle that he would be interested in and you might make a sale.

Hope this helps........... and that is all I have to say about that…

 

[cwalsh2]

If anyone would sell a few eggs or chickens next spring of any genetic hackle type chickens, it would surely be appreciated. I used to raise games and was very successful with them. Now I would like to try a few hackle types. I would surely remember who I got them from, if someone ever wanted them back. When I had Pine burr hatch chickens, I was having trouble with poor laying and hatching because of no outside blood coming into my flock. I traded roosters with someone else that had the same line and we were both back in business. I have no plans to go big and commercial. Just a small hobby flock, for my own fly tying and a few friends. Thanks Cal