Going to get a collie pup, any tips?

[thndrdancr]

Thanks for all the tips and websites, suggestions. I will need them all, I reckon. Been so long.

I actually havent seen the lil ones yet, but they are only 5 days old at this point. So it will be probably late March? when I get one. I am leaning toward a girl. I will try to go over and take a peek in a couple weeks tho, when they are moving around more.
They have 9 pups, five girls, two brown/white and three black/white. Dad is a short or smooth coat, Mom is a long or rough coat. I really want a rough coat, even tho I know MUCH more shedding and caretaking. I am aware. Ugh.
The neighbor wasnt sure which pup would be which yet as far as rough or smooth, I imagine that shows up a bit later. Thats really all I know at this point, I do have a lot of questions to ask the neighbor as well as I read up.

Pics WILL be forthcoming.

 

[EweSheep]

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Yay! Another collie owner-to-be!

Good for you, looking into the positive reinforcement training methods. I have worked with collies for years and will tell you that it is the only way to go with this breed. Saying they are a "soft" breed is an understatement! They are NOT hard-headed or stubborn, just a biddable breed - all they want to do is please and if you do give them even mild corrections, they are just crushed and may become unwilling to work (because they might make a mistake). My current agility collie knows when she does something wrong on the course without me saying or doing anything; at home a gruff "uh uh" is usually enough. One thing many collie handlers will tell you is that if you repeat exercises over and over again after the dog has already done it correctly (as happens in many obedience classes), the collie assumes that it must not have done it correctly the first time and starts "making things up" - we trainers would say the dog starts "offering behaviors" trying to figure out what you want. Leads to some funny things! LOL

You don't say whether your collie-to-be is a farm collie or a "real" collie (sorry Pardygwyn, I don't know how else to refer to AKC Collies - perhaps I should say "Lassie collies"?!). Though related, they are not the same. Pardygwyn is more into farm collies than I am and can tell you more about their temperament. Among the "true" collies, there are not truly separate lines with "show" and "working" dogs, as there are among border collies and to a lesser extent the Aussies. I am a member of the AWCA (American Working Collie Association). In spite of not being worked for many generations, we have found that many show lines still retain the herding instinct. The collie has the distinction of being the breed the AKC lists as having the largest percentage of dogs with performance titles that are ALSO breed champions! There are breeders who specialize in working collies, but those collies were originally show stock, unless they are farm collies with the blunter head.

In all the Herding Instinct testing I've seen and done, I have yet to see a collie that was afraid of stock, as Widget claims to. The most common reason for a collie to fail its instinct test is offering "play" behaviors such as play bowing to the sheep instead of wanting to push them around. This is not a bad thing for backyard chicken owners! As a breed, while they may have a considerable "chase" instinct, there is likely no other breed with such an inhibited "bite" instinct. Teaching a herding collie to "grip" is sometimes difficult - they are too polite!

Sorry for the long post - collies are one of my passions! For good info on the MDR-1 mutation (which is a VERY serious thing you need information about) go to the AWCA site, they have a great print-out for collie owners to give to their vet:
http://www.awca.net/

I agree with this......any one that is buying Collies need to have it eye checked and all the wonderful things that goes with it. Do your research as well. Get yourself familiar with the breeders and go with your gut instinct if something does not seem to be right.

As my parents and I had raised, owned and trained Collies of Hanover bloodlines along with others mostly in the Illinois, except for Lisara which they have goreous smooth collies! Stay away from Sujim's Mr Onderful bloodlines, because most of his offsprings had skin problems really bad. I do not know how they are faring now but if they weed that skin problem out of that line, good for them! My mom made the mistake when she started in to collies, she bought three different "farm collies" from three different breeders which they all said "they are normal eyed" which two of them were NOT, became blind and had to be put down. It broke Mom's heart but she wised up later on and money wise, she "upgraded" to better Collies and found a very reputable breeder, Gleynne Heinbush who has shown some collies back in her younger days. Caesar's White Ghost was one of her winning show dogs of White Collies. Glennye had to show my mother the ropes and she also learned alongside with her even with the mistake she made in breeding her b*tches to Mr Onderful and blam, skin problems cropped up which it never happened to her show stock, ever. So we spayed this dog and she was a beautiful Collie even with her faults, we had to put her down when her skin problems were so bad that the U of I was not able to help anymore and Mom could not afford to keep up with expensive shots.

If it is a working dog you want, go to a breeder that specializes that type of thing and goes with the standard as well. As for farm collies having blunter heads, do not forget those blazes that are so popular with Lassie fans, I do not see anything wrong with the white blazes but many breeders do not want that in the lines because it takes away their "gentleness expression" of the breed. We had one Collie , CD titled, had a thin blaze but oh he was soooooo smart. Including the "farm collies" there are some of them that have LONG noses like Borzois that just killed the expression but if they can do the job, that is all it matters. Do not let a blue eye dog shy you, they are goreous with blue eyes....had a blue merle she dog whose father was Plantium Pluto (can not remember his full name but a CCA champion himself)....was it ViLee's? She had the most goreous china blue eyes and even it is piercing but her sweetness and mother doting traits was worthwhile. All of her offsprings didnt have her blue eyes.

Widget, you got one beautiful blue merle dog there! Missed the dogs of my family, Witch and Ragstime, both were blue merles.

personally, I do not LIKE tri's......we had three tri colored and they were notoriously shy or some mental problems with them. I am sure others do not have that problem but it seems to be the case with us while the other colored littermates, sables and blue merles did not have that trait at all. Strange isn't it? All of them have different fathers and mothers.

Again, I hate the LONG hours of grooming Rough Collies, I pretty much prefer the smooth collies, easier to care for and they do not stink as bad when wet. I personally LOVE Black Hawk of Kasan and Lisara's Collies for Smooth Collies.......it has been so long out of the Collie World and I sold all of my magazines and yearbooks about two years ago. I have no idea who is popular nowadays but if you can give me some names of the OLD collies back then, I can remember most of them.

Good luck and I hope you will spend some time with the breeder and socialize with the puppies and you will find one out of the bunch that you both can agree on.

Temperment is number ONE, then number two is intelligence and #3 would be conformation and LAST is the bloodlines (if you are NOT breeding). If you are breeding, then it changes, all temperment, conformation, bloodlines, IQ matters the most!

Have fun!

 

[pardygwyn]

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No problem, Windrider, the term farmcollie is broad enough to be a little confusing! I have several AKC collies that I consider to be farmcollies. I also know of a line of AKC shelties that DEFINITELY earn the title! As well as purebred English Shepherds, purebred Aussies, purebred Border Collies, and mixes of the above. To me, the term just means a collie-type dog that works from dominance and is able to do multipurpose work - herding, hunting and guarding. Obviously not every dog is going to embody all three perfectly, but I like seeing at least two of those traits in each one of my dogs.

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There are some very nice farm-type AKC collies out of Hanover lines! The best chicken dog I've ever had is mostly Hanover, albeit 20 years back in her pedigree with no champions or recognizable kennel names since.

Little bit of Lick Creek, Parader and Twin Creeks in there, too: http://widdershins.webs.com/sasha.htm Very subtly dominant dog, though! Everyone says Collies are soft, but it's been my experience that their temperaments vary widely, especially in farm and performance lines. I even had a performance-line rescue once that I affectionately referred to as "the lab-border collie mix in a collie's body!" LOL She was really hyper, had prey drive like you wouldn't believe, and NEEDED to be run every day. I've also generally found male dogs to be easier to train than females. The girls have minds of their own when it suits them.

Not to say they're difficult, just the boys are quicker to snap to.

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Show breeding and reputable breeding don't necessarily go hand in hand... I would say the mistake here wasn't getting a farmcollie, but not getting an ophthalmologist's report. However, it's very rare to run across collies with colobomas (which cause the blindness, unless you're talking about PRA which is another animal altogether) these days - it's been heavily selected against. The only pup with a coloboma that I've run into recently had Classy Lassies on one side of his family, a bloodline known to produce them. I've run into many, many more Collies with skin troubles as well as Collies with porous, cottony coats that stink and tangle if not taken care of.

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While show breeders may think it detracts from expression, the main reason I've heard for breeding away from large blazes was to reduce incidences of Collie Nose - basically a bad reaction to a sunburn. I've found that as long as the skin of the muzzle is black underneath the blaze, it isn't a problem... but any collie with a white patch on that muzzle skin runs the risk of developing Collie Nose in heavy sunlight without some sunscreen! I include other collie breeds in that statement, as well... Google "blue-nosed collie" for a really cute photo of a border collie with his zinc on sometime.

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I thought all tricolors were spazzes until I got my Gypsy: http://widdershins.webs.com/gypsy.htm She's wonderful. I think it may depend more on the bloodlines than the color, but I have definitely had less luck with female tricolors than any other color/sex combination!

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That's why I love fitted coats so well. You get the best of both worlds! I really wish they'd drop the whole sofa-coat thing - it's pretty, but detrimental to the dog IMO. Oh well, at least it isn't as bad here as it is in Europe. LOL

 

[dorkinggirl]

Are you planing on getting a Border Collie or just getting a Collie?