Golden Salmon Marans

[JennieRD]

Yes, I am familiar wit that quote. They are stating that eb (brown) is called partridge and it is not to be confused with e+ (Golden Salmon). Do you have pics of the birds?
Best,
karen

These are the best I've been able to take they are very active, but its been a little chilly, I caught two of them on the perches.
I'm still trying to get better pics. Birds 1 and 3 are the same bird. Bird 2 is different
..

 

[JennieRD]

Yes, I am familiar wit that quote. They are stating that eb (brown) is called partridge and it is not to be confused with e+ (Golden Salmon). Do you have pics of the birds?
Best,
karen

Karen, after looking at SixHix pics of his rooster, two from the same batch these two hens hatched from look just like his roo. I started thinking, I had the batch of "Wheaten" eggs, I lost several in an out break of CRD, but 2 BTB cockerels, 2 Wheaten cockerels (or what I though were wheaten), and two wheaten pullets (resemble GSM) are still with me. I recall all of those chicks, were varied in shade of light to dark colors, but all had the striping. I wished I had taken photos now. I had too many hatching at one time, and never stopped long enough to really look hard at them.

After seeing his cockerel, I am wondering if they too might be GSM...Having no photos, I guess I can only speculate.....but his roo looks like a older version of mine....I just assumed they were wheaten...

 

[JennieRD]

I humbly request that those who are working on a GS project....please....do not sell your "BTB" females as BTB. For those who are working on the BTB variety, having mixed up genes in the BTB pool is a nightmare. BTB are not supposed to be e+/e+ but there are folks selling birds that hatched out wild type but mature to look like BTB and are then sold as such. Correct BTB are wheaten based. Thanks

I don't know if your still watching this thread, but I do have a question for you...I am extremely new to BTB GSM and WM I have normally stayed with solid colored fowl, is there a definitive way to determine whether a hen or cockerel caries the wheaten gene. I am in a discussion with someone else trying to figure out whether I have GSM or BTB, or a partridge type. What traits would show up in the offspring if a pair were a cross of wheaten and GSM or BTB. Mine were shipped and marked as wheaten, but they do not look anything like a wheaten.

I respect your request, but I don't think I could sell them as BTB or GSM...I'm honestly not sure what they are, I will be culling in the spring and do not want to let a good bird go, neither do I want to keep one that would disrupt the gene pool I have...I am a little in limbo. To keep or let go, I can keep them and allow the to breed to see what they produce and cull the offspring if necessary.

I appreciate yours and anyone else's input.

Jennie

 

[JennieRD]

Other Pics: of the same two a week earlier and one BTB? cockerel that hatched with the two pullets



.....
:



This is the one BTB cockerels that hatched with the same two pullets


Closeup of one of the pullets

 

[pawtraitart]

I don't know if your still watching this thread, but I do have a question for you...I am extremely new to BTB GSM and WM I have normally stayed with solid colored fowl, is there a definitive way to determine whether a hen or cockerel caries the wheaten gene. I am in a discussion with someone else trying to figure out whether I have GSM or BTB, or a partridge type. What traits would show up in the offspring if a pair were a cross of wheaten and GSM or BTB. Mine were shipped and marked as wheaten, but they do not look anything like a wheaten.

I respect your request, but I don't think I could sell them as BTB or GSM...I'm honestly not sure what they are, I will be culling in the spring and do not want to let a good bird go, neither do I want to keep one that would disrupt the gene pool I have...I am a little in limbo. To keep or let go, I can keep them and allow the to breed to see what they produce and cull the offspring if necessary.

I appreciate yours and anyone else's input.

Jennie

What was the chick down color of your babies? That will give me a clue. Correct BTB and Wheaten hatch out yellow since they are both based on the eWh e allele. (btb hatch out a bit darker yellow than wheaten) GS hatch out wild type (stripes e+) Of course eWh is recessive so two copies are required for the chick to have the proper yellow chick down color.

 

[JennieRD]

This batch were yellow with faint to medium baring none were solid yellow like my other wheaten. They were obviously not the same as my other wheaten. If you look at my aviator it was one of the eggs they hatched from I never could read the writing on it whether it was marked whm. Wm or gsm

I never took pics of this batch which is a unusual but I didn't

 

[3riverschick]

Karen, after looking at SixHix pics of his rooster, two from the same batch these two hens hatched from look just like his roo. I started thinking, I had the batch of "Wheaten" eggs, I lost several in an out break of CRD, but 2 BTB cockerels, 2 Wheaten cockerels (or what I though were wheaten), and two wheaten pullets (resemble GSM) are still with me. I recall all of those chicks, were varied in shade of light to dark colors, but all had the striping. I wished I had taken photos now. I had too many hatching at one time, and never stopped long enough to really look hard at them.

After seeing his cockerel, I am wondering if they too might be GSM...Having no photos, I guess I can only speculate.....but his roo looks like a older version of mine....I just assumed they were wheaten...

eWh is a classic yellow chick all over. If you see chipmunk stripes, e+ ( wildtype) is involved. the birds could be 1/2 e+ and 1/2 something else.
To be pure GSM, the spring would have to be exact as we discussed before. striping does not show in the presence of 2 copies of eWh. So if you were seeing any striping at all that means you had 1/2 e+ and 1/2 something else. That may sound exciting but it depends in what other corrupting genes and modifiers the other 1/2 mystery allele brought with it. ..in order to suspect you might have something worth winnowing e+/GSM out of. Esp. if melanizers or autosomal red are involved. They are "sticky" genes and tough to cull from a breeding pool. If I was going to try and cull GSM from mixed allele stock I would use eWh and not BTB. Because BTB has more unwanted modifiers and genes than eWh.
Best,
Karen

 

[JennieRD]

eWh is a classic yellow chick all over. If you see chipmunk stripes, e+ ( wildtype) is involved. the birds could be 1/2 e+ and 1/2 something else.
To be pure GSM, the spring would have to be exact as we discussed before. striping does not show in the presence of 2 copies of eWh. So if you were seeing any striping at all that means you had 1/2 e+ and 1/2 something else. That may sound exciting but it depends in what other corrupting genes and modifiers the other 1/2 mystery allele brought with it. ..in order to suspect you might have something worth winnowing e+/GSM out of. Esp. if melanizers or autosomal red are involved. They are "sticky" genes and tough to cull from a breeding pool. If I was going to try and cull GSM from mixed allele stock I would use eWh and not BTB. Because BTB has more unwanted modifiers and genes than eWh.
Best,
Karen

Thank you, that is what I needed to know. You have given me a starting point.....I appreciate your time and responses more than you realize. I'll take your advice, well see what I wind up with!

 

[3riverschick]

Best success,
I'll be rooting for you!
Karen
One other thing. If you discussing GSM with someone and they call it by an improper name and/or don't have their chick down memorized. Just stop listening. They are just spinning their wheels and don't know what they are talking about. Better to find a top Old English Game breeder who has much experience with BBR and listen to them.
Oh and..... It's a big help to know the hen is stippled. There are minor breeding laws governing breeding stippled fowl. The book below is just wonderful.
Laws governing the breeding of standard fowls. ... c.1. Card, Wetherell Henry.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.087299559;view=1up;seq=5
The author was a well respected breeder here in America. Note these are Laws. Not opinions or theories. I love this pithy little book and go back to it often when I have color questions. Judge Card was noted for his ability to make complex things simple. He could often be found at poultry shows informally lecturing to other poultry folk.

Best Success!
Karen

 

[JennieRD]

Best success,
 I'll be rooting for you!
 Karen
 One other thing. If you discussing GSM with someone and they call it by an improper name and/or don't have their chick down memorized. Just stop listening. They are just spinning their wheels and don't know what they are talking about. Better to find a top Old English Game breeder who has much experience with BBR and listen to them.
 Oh and..... It's a big help to know the hen is stippled. There are minor breeding laws governing breeding stippled fowl.  The book below is just wonderful.
[COLOR=006400]Laws governing the breeding of standard fowls. ... c.1[/COLOR]. [COLOR=800080]Card, Wetherell Henry[/COLOR].
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.087299559;view=1up;seq=5
The author was a well respected breeder here in America. Note these are Laws. Not opinions or theories. I love this pithy little book and go back to it often when I have color questions. Judge Card was noted for his ability to make complex things simple. He could often be found at poultry shows informally lecturing to other poultry folk.

 Best Success!
 Karen

Thank you, I will use the advise wisely... I followed the like and read quite a bit.. It's an amazing book his viewpoint was so simple to follow. Thank you so very much! I appreciate the information, your advice, and your time!

Jennie