Goodbye chickies...one snoopy neighbor and an (often defunct) HOA letter

[Sallyintucson]

When I bought my house I told my real estate agent that rule # 1 was no HOA's to bother with. I've heard and seen too many nightmares of all kinds to want to bother with such things. Even If your city allows chickens, your development may not. I would check the rules just to make sure that this isn't just a case of a cranky neighbor. The other's people's ideas of using a HOA attorney to do that checking (and speaking) for you is a great idea.

 

[jk9chicks]

I hope it works out where you are rehoming yours. I lost four of my six when Animal control ordered me to lose them in 7 days. My daughter's husband built a nice coop. Unfortunately the pit bull dogs next door tore the fence apart and chewed into the coop to slaughter all but two. It is due to my bad neighbor I was reported, due to bad neighbor for my daughter they were killed, due to your bad neighbor you lost yours; each of us has one good neighbor! I'm beginning to wonder if it is even possible to have good neighbors on BOTH sides! You're lucky your city allows chickens. Getting HOA to amend, here in Texas, does not cost anything as it is done at a meeting through voting. Our HOA is poorly represented by residents so likely at the February meeting it will be passed once City of Cedar Park changes the ordinance, an uphill battle that I'm determined to continue. Too many reasons to have them, and not one good reason (unless you're just pure lazy) to not. I hate public speaking, but I find this is easy to be passionate about. Best of luck with your HOA

Oh, that is so sad...
I got an extention so the people who want our chickens can build them reasonabley safe homes (I hope they will be safe).
They will be their chickens at that point when they move into a chicken tractor at their house. I will just have to be ok with whatever happens at that point.
Good luck to you too!

 

[jk9chicks]

First, do the CC&Rs, Bylaws or rules prohibit chickens? Do they give the board authority to approve/disapprove of plans, construction, outbuildings/accessory buildings? The whole board can operate as the architectural committee unless there is a provision that it must be separate from the board. However, if there was an official change that removed architectural oversight, then the board doesn't have the right to institute it in your individual case.

Tooo late for it now, but someone failed to provide you with proper disclosure before closing, and you probably would have had a reasonable to certain ability to cancel the sale without losing anything other than your time.

the say no poultry for commerical purposes.
““Livestock and Poultry: No animals, livestock, or poultry of any kind shall be raised, bred or kept on any lot, except that dogs, cats or other household pets may be kept provided that they are not kept, bred or maintained for any commercial purposes.”

I will have to read the CCRs more carefully about the architect thing...
In the CCRS it says the election of trustees is to be done by secret ballot.
They never do that.
The HOA went inactive and was reactivated by a few homeowners who have been winging it.
When asked if there is a quorum, they don’t really know, but figure if people don’t come to the meetings they don’t care.
And a “nominating committee” is to nominate them first.
The meetings are usually small.
If there was a change made you might not find it, they don't keep records well. In shoeboxes is what I heard.
One person went through it all and was said to have got the books up to date, but within a few years it was bad again.

I didn't know you could walk away from closing a house, if you already committed to buy pending inspection...would it be considered part of "inspection"?

 

[jk9chicks]

If you read it as no animals (of any kind), livestock (of any kind), or poultry (of any kind)…
And read it through to the end...
You would see it states no animals, of any kind, for any commercial purposes.
It lists dogs, cats and other household pets (which are not defined and can be different for different people, especially in the 21 century) as long as they are not kept for commercial purposes. Chickens have become a more popular pet.

BUT I was told by an attorney's assistant, that going the pet route, might not work...she said it seemed pretty clear (to her), no chickens.

So, I want it formally amended. Since they don't keep records very well anyway.
Just getting my next door neighbors permission, isn't good enough for me now since it obviously back fired.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote: I'm not quite sure what "went inactive" means. If the HOA ceased to exist, then a group of less than the entire membership cannot re-institute it. If it never ceased to exist, just stopped doing anything, that might have been legal and might not.

The bylaws usually state the quorum. For board meetings, it is often a majority of the board members, For an association-wide meeting, it is likely to be something like 2/3rds or 3/4ths of those eligible to vote. Changing CC&Rs usually requires approval of 2/3rds or 3/4ths--not just that number voting, but that number voting for the change. Let's assume we're talking 2/3rds for both. If the association has 100 members, you have a quorum if at least 67 voters are present. Let's assume that 72 voters are present. For an issue that requires only a majority vote (new board member, budget approval, etc), 37 affirmative votes will cause the issue to pass. But for a change to the CC&Rs, you need 67 affirmative votes.

Some states allow proxy votes, determine the minimum quorum percentage, etc. State statues that govern HOAs generally override CC&R provisions that conflict with the statutes. I know that in our state, CC&Rs and Bylaws and changes to them must be recorded, and are not valid until they are recorded. So if a change was not recorded, it would not be valid or enforceable.

Having an HOA when you did not know there is one is a lack of disclosure, an inspection looks at the physical condition of the property. If part of the land being sold had been deeded away, or was being claimed in an adverse possessions suit, or was next door to a meth house that had been busted several months previously, a physical inspection would not discover these, yet the knowledge might well be pertinent in your decision to purchase. Knowingly withholding pertinent information can invalidate a contract. This is a lack of good faith. I would certainly not recommend immediately cancelling in this type of circumstance; however, I would strongly recommend speaking to an attorney as soon as the lack of disclosure is discovered, and certainly before signing closing paperwork.

 

[jk9chicks]

I'm not quite sure what "went inactive" means. If the HOA ceased to exist, then a group of less than the entire membership cannot re-institute it. If it never ceased to exist, just stopped doing anything, that might have been legal and might not.

The bylaws usually state the quorum. For board meetings, it is often a majority of the board members, For an association-wide meeting, it is likely to be something like 2/3rds or 3/4ths of those eligible to vote. Changing CC&Rs usually requires approval of 2/3rds or 3/4ths--not just that number voting, but that number voting for the change. Let's assume we're talking 2/3rds for both. If the association has 100 members, you have a quorum if at least 67 voters are present. Let's assume that 72 voters are present. For an issue that requires only a majority vote (new board member, budget approval, etc), 37 affirmative votes will cause the issue to pass. But for a change to the CC&Rs, you need 67 affirmative votes.

Some states allow proxy votes, determine the minimum quorum percentage, etc. State statues that govern HOAs generally override CC&R provisions that conflict with the statutes. I know that in our state, CC&Rs and Bylaws and changes to them must be recorded, and are not valid until they are recorded. So if a change was not recorded, it would not be valid or enforceable.

Having an HOA when you did not know there is one is a lack of disclosure, an inspection looks at the physical condition of the property. If part of the land being sold had been deeded away, or was being claimed in an adverse possessions suit, or was next door to a meth house that had been busted several months previously, a physical inspection would not discover these, yet the knowledge might well be pertinent in your decision to purchase. Knowingly withholding pertinent information can invalidate a contract. This is a lack of good faith. I would certainly not recommend immediately cancelling in this type of circumstance; however, I would strongly recommend speaking to an attorney as soon as the lack of disclosure is discovered, and certainly before signing closing paperwork.

Went inactive= no one filing as a non-profit (done yearly) and no one sending out statements (30 days before 1st of January) or checking the HOA mail…checks that were sent expired. Homeowners trying to re-finance and needed the treasurer to give them a statement and no one knew if they were paid and how to issue a statement…and no one knows where the corporate seal is...

It was somehow re-activated. They said all they had to do was start to file again and pay a fee to re-instate it. Just a few people did this (as far as I know). Because when I talked to people (went door to door) some people had bought their house when no HOA was functioning. That is why they have never paid dues. They question that these people can do that.
Yes, I have looked the association up on the county records…and it is currently there and states active. But I don’t know how to check past years.

There is a statement in the bylaws that voting rights may be suspended by board or trustees for default in payment. I don’t know if this is for regular meetings only, or for amending as well…that could change the dynamics of the chance to amend.

As far as I know changes/votes are not formally recorded/amended…I don’t think anyone knows how to do that, so they just do whatever they want and if they do something to allow you to do something, better keep the record of it yourself.

I am reading the CCRs and bylaws and trying to make sense of all the legalese (legal language).

Special meeting can be called by board, trustees or ¼ of membership (but do those unpaid count?) in order to call a meeting? I would think so.
And it does allow proxy votes.

You are right…we should have consulted someone, but we were first time home buyers…we were over excited about owning a home. We tried to do our homework, but still, we were blissfully unaware of the potential problems a HOA can cause a homeowner….
Luckily they don’t do much (so far)…we just have a couple of homeowners that are VERY against chickens. BUT I believe they are not the majority….they are not going to be happy. But I know at least 4 other homeowners who would like (or tried) to have chickens (or ducks).

I am coming up with questions for the attorney so can figure out what our rights are.
And hopefully help other homeowners as well.
I also want to talk to more people and see what they want. I am sure there are other things that need to be amended.

 

[jk9chicks]

Hey also, does anyone know.
If a homeowner asks the treasurer for a list of who is paid up and who isn't...is she required to give me the information?
or do people have privacy rights for that information?
People have generally thought it's private information, but I'm thinking the bylaws say the books should be available to view during "regular business hours"...HA! whatever that means in a volunteer homeowners association.
side note: they don't check if people are up to date on their dues before they vote them in to an office.
the old treasurer told me he fixed an error in the records, that said he hadn't paid, when he was sure he had....so basically his lot was behind on dues and he was voted to be treasurer because no one else would do it and he "fixed it" (his).

 

[shabychkpoultry]

Sadly, HOA's can be a nightmare! I would think if enough of your neighbors sign a petition, well, it just might work! Best of luck!!!!!!

 

[jk9chicks]

Sadly, HOA's can be a nightmare! I would think if enough of your neighbors sign a petition, well, it just might work! Best of luck!!!!!!

Do petitions work? I guess that would at least get the ball rolling....

 

[shabychkpoultry]

I don;t know? But, they do petitions for just about everything! LOL Recalls, etc. If everyone in the neighborhood doesn't have a problem with chicken keeping, why would the HOA be against it??? Majority rules, or at least it should!