Gosling not walking - new owner

[wingedmenagerie]

I am a new flock owner, and have a gosling with what his veterinarian thinks is perosis. There is no avian vet in my area, and the one that is a couple towns over has a really bad reputation, so my dog & cat vet did xrays and it looks like the tendon popped off joint and now his left leg is contractured and he won't use it.

Unfortunately, I did not know until recently that perosis was a thing and had been treating him with antibiotics thinking bumblefoot. My vet was unable to pop the tendon back into place and thinks it is because it has been out of place for over a week. She is familiar with the avian vet a couple towns over and mentioned the farm birds that have seen that vet did not have positive outcomes, but said that anesthesia in birds is difficult due to the way they breathe is different from mammals (ie there is no diaphragm). I accepted the treatment she could offer, but I wanted to check in with you guys to see if anyone has experience with perosis that is over a week being successfully treated.

Henry is a male embden goose hatched 5-31-23, and is paired with a female white crested duck hatched the same day. I decided to get Henry as a flock guardian for the chickens and ducks after loosing one of my ducklings to a predator. The crested duck is doing great and has no health issues.

Over 1 week ago, Henry began being unable to walk on left foot and was sitting on ground alot, and also not lifting his head right. We could find nothing apparent that could be causing this such as a cut or other injury, so we wrongly assumed it was niacin deficiency or bumblefoot and we just couldn't find the area of infection. We started Henry on doxycycline 100mg/day (on his favorite treat watermelon) and added brewer's yeast to his water. He immediately appeared to improve by the next morning and was trying to walk and move around. We have been continuing this treatment, but he won't put any weight on the left foot and when I try to inspect the foot I can't extend it properly. I called my vet and she agreed to see him, but is admittedly not experienced with pet waterfowl. As I said, she was unable to get his leg extended either and offered some treatment she hopes will work but said if this does not work that she would not be comfortable with performing surgery. She is having me continue the doxycycline, as it does have some anti-inflammatory properties, seemed to provide some improvement, and she doesn't want him to develop any resistant bacteria. She gave me meloxicam for him and a laser treatment, and wants to do those 3 times per week. I am not a patient person and know that every day he is growing and it will be harder to fix the longer this goes on and am looking for advice on any other options I can try.

Following the laser treatment he didn't fuss with me when I touched his leg as he had done before, but it was also at the end of him being held for 2 hours straight which was way longer than normal for him so I don't know if it was the therapy or not.

 

[Goosebaby]

Could you post pictures of the leg from different angles?

Also what feed is he on? It sounds like he may have/ had a vitamin deficiency as well as a leg issue, if not then it was the doxy that seemed to be having an effect, meaning he did indeed have a bacterial infection.


If it is a tendon issue they aren’t easy to fix unless set within a short time period sadly. I’m not sure if it’s been too long or not in your case though. Slipped tendons is typically an issue with very young goslings, it’s more unusual for a gosling as old as yours to get it.

I wouldn’t necessarily trust your veterinarian’s opinion but the fact that he’s willing to see your bird and is honest about his lack of knowledge is a good thing. A second opinion is always good if you can afford it but if the other vet does indeed have a bad rep among clients then that says a lot. Just because someone says they know what they’re doing doesn't mean that’s the truth. I really don’t like casting doubt on veterinarians as I used to think the world of them but my experiences the last several years have led me to doubt any below the age of 65. All the old farm vets are retired or retiring and avian and livestock medicine is severely suffering as a result.

Also here’s information on avian anesthesia you could pass along to the vet
https://veteriankey.com/anesthetic-management-of-birds/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/248866588_Current_Techniques_in_Avian_Anesthesia

With inhaled anesthesia it’s vitally important that the inhaled gas must not be cold.


In future keep in mind if your gander will not be an effective flock guardian, no goose or gander will. There are “alarm” geese, but guardian geese is an unfortunately common urban legend that influencers and random feed store employees love to spread.
Geese are protective of their mates, nests, and goslings and will die to defend them. They will not and cannot protect anything else or themselves. They have an imposing presence but their bluff only goes so far when a raccoon, fox, or anything larger decides to call them on it.
Geese are helpful at alerting the flock to danger, an extra set of eyes is always helpful, and they can be very good deterrents against most hawks. Some breeds are better at alerting when there are human visitors, typically African type geese, but others can also do quite well depending on personality. Generally if a goose is truly afraid when spotting a predator they’ll alert the flock with a low “heh heh heh” sound that the flock will be alerted too but that hopefully won’t draw attention from the predator, meaning that you may not hear it unless within close proximity.

 

[wingedmenagerie]

Thank you so much for your information! I am working today and won't be home in time to get any decent pictures for you, but I will get some taken and uploaded as soon as I am able.

I can try describing as best I can. It looks like it looks when he is sitting on the leg, but with his foot about a 10° angle out away from his body at the "knee" joint, and then the leg just doesn't move unless we move it, and there is almost no range of motion at the "knee" joint. His foot is almost dangling about as he tries to hop around on the other foot. The leg just stays in that bent position.

Fortunately, I am not inhibited by cost at this point, but by availability. My vet and the bad rep vet in another town are literally my known only options at this point. I have been googling avian vets and might have found a couple that are a few hours away and I am going to call them to see what they can do.

I am a nurse, and when I examined his leg, my uneducated guess was some kind of dislocation. Apparently, he has almost tried to put the foot down/bear weight on the affected leg yesterday and today so I think the meloxicam must be helping with any pain at least. But I am very hesitant to think that a week's time of growth, injury, and immobilization is going to be fixed with such a conservative treatment plan. The laser therapy is great for what it is, but neither it nor my vet are advertising it as a known successful treatment for Henry. Laser therapy's expected success is on par with meloxicam and other "first-line" type treatments. I'm sure the meloxicam and/or maybe laser might have helped on day 1 or 2; day 8 is a much different story.

Are you thinking that it may not be a tendon issue or that my vet's treatment isn't appropriate, or both? Obviously without pictures I'm not asking you for a diagnosis just clarifying where your thoughts are leaning...

As for feed, in the first week they did have some Purina Duck pellets (this is the only feed my 4-month-old Pekin will actually eat) and some Nature's Best organic duck crumbles. However, before their 1st week came around I had changed them to Flock Party Rising Chick crumbles that have 22% protein and says is for chicks, ducklings, & goslings. They have access to their feed and fresh water 24/7 and we change the water out at least 3 times a day. We give treats of mealworms, peas, corn, watermelon and various other fruits/veggies once a day but their favorites seem to be the worms and peas. Since Henry has not been walking, we have also been giving him Hydro-hen mixed water and brewer's yeast for 2 of the water refills/day. Henry's favorite is the watermelon, so that is what we use to give him his doxy and meloxicam, and we sprinkle a little sugar on top of the meds to help a little too. And they all graze on the grass, weeds, and buggies on the ground in their run throughout the day in addition to what we give.

My vet is my best guess nearing 50 years old and has practiced in our town for pretty close her whole career so she was at least trained by the kind of vets you are describing. I too have had my share of the good and the bad, but she is a good one. And I too gave her credit for being honest about her experience- she has never seen or done surgery on birds as our town is almost entirely cattle and horses. I pass 3 vets that treat equines to get to my vet Our vets in town are actually one of the reasons I moved back to this town from a much more touristy area (where the vet with bad rep is located) where I had some of my share of those "bad" vets.

I do appreciate your comments about Henry's "guardian" status, but I want to be clear that he was not the only change made and we have no expectations of any actual protection. It was a terribly hard lesson to learn but I wanted to ensure it was not repeated (as much as nature allows). The information I found did specifically state the limitations of a goose as a "guardian". I was only hopeful that he could be a "passive" added level of protection, but we completely changed their housing and installed some unconventional techniques too (I have a baby monitor and security cam running in their run 24/7, just in case. They used to be "free ranging" within a small area of fence with netting wrapped around it during the day and in a coop at night, and all of that was in a completely open portion of our property. They are now only free-ranging with in-person human supervision (but still inside the netting that I moved to extend out from the door to run), during the day when we are not outside with them they are in a 20' x 20' run that is covered in 1/4" hardware mesh (and buried to deter digging predators) that is all now located under a big shady tree. I placed their coops underneath the end of the run that has a tarp cover to reduce the risk of aerial predators becoming accustomed to seeing them, and the coops are COMPLETELY secured every day before dusk, and we don't let them out until after sunrise. I "get it" that Henry is nothing more than a bigger and sometimes louder meal for any predator, so he won't provide them with any safety. I've also already decided that he will be getting some geese to have his own flock friends once we have his leg situated and we can extend the size of the run to include a pond instead of their kiddie pools. Where I am located this is actually way more than I probably need for protection of the geese since we mostly have small predators that wouldn't go after an adult goose, but we have plenty of predators who will come looking for the chickens and ducks. We have 1 hawk that has always liked to hang out around our property and tons of kites that like to fly over. We have acreage on a very busy state road and are lucky to have a reduced presence of land predators because of the traffic- we put the run in front of our house behind our trees & berm that border the state road instead of behind our house where our property backs up to forested areas and other properties. We have had trail cams up before trying to see what kind of wildlife crossed through and never really got as much as a bobcat before we had any animals that lived outside, but I know there are plenty of bobcats in the area as well as raccoons, opossums, feral cats, skunks, and weasels that can get the ducks and chickens.

I am so thankful for any advice you can give on this super long reply!

 

[Goosebaby]

Are you thinking that it may not be a tendon issue or that my vet's treatment isn't appropriate, or both? Obviously without pictures I'm not asking you for a diagnosis just clarifying where your thoughts are leaning...

I can’t say wether it’s a tendon issue or not, truthfully only an experienced vet can tell with an examination but sometimes you can tell by feeling the leg. if the tendon is displaced it will be placed along the side instead of following the back of the leg down and it might have some movement.

This has some more information on slipped tendon treatment. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...of-slipped-tendons-in-bantam-duckling.987977/

There are other things that could cause a leg issue like you’re describing. A dislocated leg or hip, or nutritional issue. Geese can sometimes dislocate their leg but the force required to pop it out of the socket more often breaks the femur high up or the pelvis so what might appear to be a dislocated leg is more likely a broken leg or pelvis.

@Miss Lydia knows more about tendon issues than I do.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Is there any swelling around the knee area? usually when there is a slipped tendon there will be swelling.
if you can post pictures when you get the time that will help us help you better.