Grab your cape Lagerdogger! I have a few questions :)

[Oghdoff]

This is one of the 2 Eastern Wild poults I bought recently. They may have some Palm in them not sure. Just wanted your thoughts on the coloring.

Thanks

 

[Lagerdogger]

First. I don't have any experience with eastern wild poults, so my ability to help you in this is limited. However, if you have experience with eastern wild poults, we may be able to work a couple of things out.

If this poult was the result of a wild X royal palm, it will be carrying a black-wing gene, a palm gene, and a Narragansett gene. All of these genes would be recessive, and so they will not express themselves fully (the exception being hens would look like Narragansetts). If the poult us a wild X palm crossed back to a wild, it may have all, some, or none of those recessive genes. Palm genes and Narragansett genes can be "dilution" genes in some instances, and can lighten or frost some feathers. This is where you or someone else with experience with wild poults needs to jump in. Does the poult look lighter than a typical eastern wild? If so, it may (or may not) be showing a recessive palm or Narri gene.

A test to tell what genes it has is to mate with with a royal palm. If it is carrying just a balck-wing gene, you will get black-winged wild turkey toms (sort of), and bl-wing narragansett hens. If it is carrying just a palm gene, the offspring will look more or less like Oregon gray toms and Narri hens. If it is carrying just a Narri gene, the offspring will all be Narragansetty. And then if it has combinations there would be lots more discussion. I was intentionally soft on my descriptions of the next generation offspring because I am not entirely sure what eastern wild genes consist of and how they may influence the heritage genes that I understand a little better.

Sorry I couldn't help you more.

 

[Oghdoff]

That helped alot. The gentleman I bought the 2 E Wild poults from has been crossing Palms and E Wilds for a while now. For now I am calling them my mutt turkeys. I have 2 Standard Bronze and 2 Black Spanish poults as well. I'm hoping to be able to breed some combo of these in the future and was just wondering what genes the mutts had. To tell the truth. The mutts look alot like my standard bronze if that may help you help me. Aside from one of the mutts being a little lighter colored than the other.

 

[Lagerdogger]

It might be more fun (and educational) for you to decide what color turkeys you want to end up with, and then build a breeding program to address that, rather than just start mixing turkeys together and see what happens. For instance, I want to have golden phoenix, but can't just buy some because no one that sells them can ship turkeys to Minnesota. But knowing that a golden phoenix is essentially a black-winged golden Narragansett, I know I need to match birds to get a certain combination of color genes. It becomes a puzzle, then, to figure out what to cross with what to get the results you are looking for. I need two black-winged genes, one palm gene, two Narragansett genes, and one red gene. Since I can only get the 8 standard heritage breeds, I obviously have to start with royal palm (black wing, palm, and narragansett) and bourbon red (red). By crossing these offspring back to royal palm, 1/4 of the offspring should be golden phoenix. Or I could cross them back to BR X RP to get many more varieties, but a much smaller percentage of golden phoenix. I have 13 BR X RP poults right now. So I will save a few hens and cross with a RP tom next spring.

OK, maybe only nerdy biologists see the entertainment value in this

 

[jc12551]

I see the entertainment value in this...oh wait, I'm a biology teacher.

I use chicken genetics in class all the time. Now I will have to start using turkey genetics instead!

 

[Oghdoff]

Quote:

I see where you are coming from. Until now I have just been wondering wth I had in the Eastern/Palm birds. Now you have me wondering about what beautiful birds I can get in the future by crossing these right. hmmmmm. Maybe between your knowledge and maybe a tutorial from jc I can breed some really pretty turkeys. Now only to wait and see what sex these 6 poults turn out to be.