*Graphic Necropsy Photos Update* Dead Hen This AM—Vent Prolapse? (Photo Warning) :'(

[NightingaleJen]

Early this afternoon I went out to visit and check on the flock, only to find Matilda, one of our nearly two-year-old EEs, lying in the bedding beneath the roost. Alas, she was not just scratching around searching for a goody. *sigh* I had to get to a meeting, but after a quick inspection it looks like she may have had a vent prolapse or been egg-bound, so I took a picture:

She has often had poopy butt problems, and we have often had to rinse her rear off, but it has been a while since we had to do that, though as you can see, there's an issue today. I tried feeling with my work gloves on, but couldn't detect an egg; doesn't mean there is not one. She was kind of stiff, but not very. Her sweet little eyes were closed.

Normally I'd have been out earlier, but we had a bad lightning storm this morning and I didn't want to run out. It looks to me like she died overnight, but of course it's hard to say.


Info:

* We have been in flockdown for at least a month now, though Matilda herself did escape the run maybe two weeks ago and ran from the gate to the people door of the coop (10-15') before I caught her​

* Everyone else looks and acts fine right now​

* The birds are all on Flock Raiser with eggshell, oyster shell, and grit available​

* They do get an afternoon treat of some kind of vegetable or sprouts I grow for them right now, just as another form of flockdown entertainment in their 18x30ish run​

* Matilda seemed fine Saturday and Sunday when I was out there visiting/checking in​

* I did give the flock a mass of winterkilled rosemary bush with some dandelion greens mixed in late yesterday afternoon/early evening; maybe something bad snuck in?​

I can get a better photo later (it's pouring outside again) if you all would like one or find it more helpful. Should I get her necropsied? High path flu was found one county over maybe a week and a half ago, but our run and coop are pretty secure.

This is our first chicken loss. Matilda was definitely at the bottom of the pecking order, but a sweet little thing and I always enjoyed her. I'm very sad, but she did at least have a good happy life.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I'm sorry for your loss.

It does look like a prolapse from what I can see.
If you feel up to it, doing an informal necropsy may give you more information. I would look at the reproductive system and organs.

And wow! You've been a member for 10yrs and this is your first loss ever? What's your secret?

 

[NightingaleJen]

I'm sorry for your loss.

It does look like a prolapse from what I can see.
If you feel up to it, doing an informal necropsy may give you more information. I would look at the reproductive system and organs.

And wow! You've been a member for 10yrs and this is your first loss ever? What's your secret?

Thank you. Maybe we will perform a necropsy...can't say I would look forward to it but it might be a good idea. Is there a tutorial to walk me through it?

I have been a member for over ten years because that's how long I wanted a flock! Twice we wound up in towns where chickens had been banned immediately after we purchased a home, or where it was on the table and looked good. :/ Had to wait almost ten years and three moves for my girls and am very glad to finally have them.

 

[NightingaleJen]

Well, I did perform a necropsy (or did my best, anyhow) this afternoon. I do still think it was a prolapse; I'm sorry, I should have taken another picture of that but failed to do so. There was a *lot* of pale pink tissue coming out in a sort of egglike shape this morning, maybe 1.5-2" worth. My poor sweet girl, I had no idea. :/

I did watch a few necropsy videos online, and between those and my Chicken Health Handbook did my best in the garage atop the garbage can. Of course, I'm not quite sure what I was seeing other than your standard cuts of chicken, to be honest (CHH does not have a basic diagram of chicken anatomy that I could find, and under the circumstances it would have been nice since I was already sad). Also, when I began cutting the skin, some yellow stuff that looked a lot like yolk came out.

Matilda did look a little fatty to me, which I do not entirely understand, though my husband told me he didn't realize why I was so picky about the amount of scratch the girls got on cold nights. He would give them a little more than my sometimes overspecific "one and three-quarter cups". Still, until a month ago they were free-ranging for at least half the day, every day unless there was a lot of snow, and running all over. But maybe it was typical?

Well, attached are the photos. Again, I almost certainly did some things wrong despite my best attempts. I apologized to Matilda the whole time!

Well, I'd wanted to be a veterinarian as a kid...

These are indeed graphic, so do not say you were unwarned. Can anyone...help me diagnose?

The yolky goo. (The prolapse seemed to retract quite a bit after I began.)

Her crop was full—pellet feed and some scratch from last night. Nothing unusual. I don't recall finding much grit—but they do have a grit dispenser and it is about half-full right now, so they have some. :/ I kind of forgot to be feeling for that, unfortunately, and we had...removed her remains by the time I remembered. :/ Not sure what that means.

Tissue looks healthy to me. Of course I'm not sure how long she had been dead at this point.

Heart has fat on it but otherwise looked clear?

This is where I began to get confused, because things didn't quite match my necropsy diagram in the book. All that yellow! Any idea what it is? Poor thing.

Two eggs. Also, the white things on her intestines...tapeworms? I could not quite figure it out. The flock is due for their worming. That is on me.

(All the extra liquid is soapy water I had on hand to kind of clear things so I could see better. Didn't use a lot, but it was recommended and came in handy.)

So here are the two yolks. It was an all-around difficult day in several ways, unfortunately, and I didn't go back and review the egg cycle. What are the small round things? Are they tumors or more yolks?

I do still think it was a prolapse, though I'm not sure why it happened. Was she overweight? I do everything I can to take good care of them and other than veg scraps and sprouts late in the day, don't give them many 'treats'.

Thank you.

Just so her last appearance here at BYC isn't sad...

Plotting something nefarious with Bebe Glazer.

Enjoying a little gossip with her EE sisters at the Compost Bucket Cocktail Bar last Halloween.

Hard at work a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Eggcessive]

I wonder if she had fatty liver hemorrhagic disease in addition to her egg binding or prolapse. I saw it in one of my hens, and the liver was tan with a ton of thick fat on organs. The fat was 2 inches thick under the skin. I am not the most experienced person with a necropsy. I’m sorry for your loss.

 

[Kiki]

Well, I did perform a necropsy (or did my best, anyhow) this afternoon. I do still think it was a prolapse; I'm sorry, I should have taken another picture of that but failed to do so. There was a *lot* of pale pink tissue coming out in a sort of egglike shape this morning, maybe 1.5-2" worth. My poor sweet girl, I had no idea. :/

I did watch a few necropsy videos online, and between those and my Chicken Health Handbook did my best in the garage atop the garbage can. Of course, I'm not quite sure what I was seeing other than your standard cuts of chicken, to be honest (CHH does not have a basic diagram of chicken anatomy that I could find, and under the circumstances it would have been nice since I was already sad). Also, when I began cutting the skin, some yellow stuff that looked a lot like yolk came out.

Matilda did look a little fatty to me, which I do not entirely understand, though my husband told me he didn't realize why I was so picky about the amount of scratch the girls got on cold nights. He would give them a little more than my sometimes overspecific "one and three-quarter cups". Still, until a month ago they were free-ranging for at least half the day, every day unless there was a lot of snow, and running all over. But maybe it was typical?

Well, attached are the photos. Again, I almost certainly did some things wrong despite my best attempts. I apologized to Matilda the whole time!

Well, I'd wanted to be a veterinarian as a kid...

These are indeed graphic, so do not say you were unwarned. Can anyone...help me diagnose?

View attachment 3059336

The yolky goo. (The prolapse seemed to retract quite a bit after I began.)

Her crop was full—pellet feed and some scratch from last night. Nothing unusual. I don't recall finding much grit—but they do have a grit dispenser and it is about half-full right now, so they have some. :/ I kind of forgot to be feeling for that, unfortunately, and we had...removed her remains by the time I remembered. :/ Not sure what that means.


View attachment 3059352

Tissue looks healthy to me. Of course I'm not sure how long she had been dead at this point.

View attachment 3059353
Heart has fat on it but otherwise looked clear?
View attachment 3059354

This is where I began to get confused, because things didn't quite match my necropsy diagram in the book. All that yellow! Any idea what it is? Poor thing.

View attachment 3059355

View attachment 3059356

Two eggs. Also, the white things on her intestines...tapeworms? I could not quite figure it out. The flock is due for their worming. That is on me.

(All the extra liquid is soapy water I had on hand to kind of clear things so I could see better. Didn't use a lot, but it was recommended and came in handy.)
View attachment 3059358
So here are the two yolks. It was an all-around difficult day in several ways, unfortunately, and I didn't go back and review the egg cycle. What are the small round things? Are they tumors or more yolks?

I do still think it was a prolapse, though I'm not sure why it happened. Was she overweight? I do everything I can to take good care of them and other than veg scraps and sprouts late in the day, don't give them many 'treats'.

Thank you.

Just so her last appearance here at BYC isn't sad...
View attachment 3059364
Plotting something nefarious with Bebe Glazer.

View attachment 3059365
Enjoying a little gossip with her EE sisters at the Compost Bucket Cocktail Bar last Halloween.
View attachment 3059366
Hard at work a couple of weeks ago.

Looks like she was laying internally. That yellow is a mix of egg material and fat.

I cannot say this with enough stress but I highly recommend that you stop feeding all treats to your birds immediately.

 

[NightingaleJen]

Looks like she was laying internally. That yellow is a mix of egg material and fat.

I cannot say this with enough stress but I highly recommend that you stop feeding all treats to your birds immediately.

Thank you.

Just to clarify—and truly, I'm not trying to be snarky, difficult, or obtuse in any way—that includes greens and sprouts? That's the primary 'treat' they get (and those treats only because they're now locked in the run rather than free ranging; until now that was rare). save scratch when it's freezing or below at night.

Not too many cold nights like that left, at least, so I can definitely end scratch.

 

[Kiki]

Thank you.

Just to clarify—and truly, I'm not trying to be snarky, difficult, or obtuse in any way—that includes greens and sprouts? That's the primary 'treat' they get (and those treats only because they're now locked in the run rather than free ranging; until now that was rare). save scratch when it's freezing or below at night.

Not too many cold nights like that left, at least, so I can definitely end scratch.

I would eliminate the scratch immediately.
If you're feeding more than about a spoonful a tablespoon full worth of anything besides the commercially made pelleted or crumbled feed then it is considered a treat.
A spoonful worth of anything is about 10% of their diet.
On average a full grown chicken should eat about 3/4 cup worth of feed per day.

The feed that you feed... Is in a pelleted or crumble form? Is it a whole grain form?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I have been a member for over ten years because that's how long I wanted a flock! Twice we wound up in towns where chickens had been banned immediately after we purchased a home, or where it was on the table and looked good. :/ Had to wait almost ten years and three moves for my girls and am very glad to finally have them.

It's was worth the wait! Even during heartbreak, it's soooo worth it.
I'm going to go by a few quotes below, so bear with me.
I'm certainly no expert or vet, but I'll tell you what I think I see anyway. I know very little and there's so much to learn still! @coach723 may want to jump in too, she's really good at this stuff.

when I began cutting the skin, some yellow stuff that looked a lot like yolk came out

If you cut the abdomen and yellow stuff that looked like yolk came out, she at some point had likely laid internally.

I don't recall finding much grit

Usually you won't find much grit in the crop, but if you cut open the gizzard, likely you would have found more.

Heart has fat

This is where I began to get confused, because things didn't quite match my necropsy diagram in the book. All that yellow! Any idea what it is?

There was fat on the heart, a bit too much, imho. All that yellow is fat too. Too much fat surrounding the organs can make it difficult to lay eggs and it does affect the overall health of the hen.
The color of the liver is off and it looks to be soft (for the lack of a better word), not firm and a deep reddish color like normal. To me, she had Fatty Liver Disease.

Two eggs. Also, the white things on her intestines...tapeworms? I could not quite figure it out.

The 2 white things on the intestines look to be part of the Ceca and looks pretty normal to me. Not worms.

So here are the two yolks. It was an all-around difficult day in several ways, unfortunately, and I didn't go back and review the egg cycle. What are the small round things? Are they tumors or more yolks?

The small round things look to be ova (yolks) that would have developed as time passed.

I do still think it was a prolapse, though I'm not sure why it happened. Was she overweight?

I do agree, from your first photo, it does look like she had a prolapse. A hen that had excess fat in the abdomen and/or Fatty liver disease can be prone to prolapse.
I can't say what happened for sure, but I would make an assumption that she suffered quick organ failure during the process of pushing out an egg...don't know though.

I'm very sorry! I know it's stressful losing a sweet hen. I also understand what it took to make the decision to investigate further, especially with the first loss. It's a roller coaster of emotions and definitely not an easy thing to do.

Thank you for the photos of Matilda as well. What a lovely little lady she was. I'm sure she will be missed.

 

[coach723]

I agree with everything @Wyorp Rock said, exactly my thoughts also. Scratch is pretty common for causing fatty birds, some birds are more genetically prone to getting fat so are more affected by treats. I'm very sorry for your loss, your pictures were good!