Great Depression of 2016

[rebelcowboysnb]

Cowboy, where does one make a stand? When a government action runs counter to one's moral belief, is it not just to refuse to accede? I am thinking of the "I was just following orders" defense at the Nurenburg trials.

If she wanted to take a stand she would have quit, what she wants is power that is why she did not quit.

Don't let the sales pitch blind you to the facts. This woman is a tax collector an a marriage license is a tax paper. She is not protecting marriage cause she does not marry people, she is protecting taxes...

 

[hemet dennis]

Uhm... using your example of blacks and whites wanting to get married, it was people like this clerk who perpetuated and enforced that nonsense. She would have been the one refusing to issue a license to a mixed couple despite the fact that the law and the courts said you had to. As I said, she is in jail because she refuses to do her job as prescribed by law. If she wants to make a change, then let her either do it on her own time or get elected to a legislative position. It is not her job to decide who can get married and who can't. Her job is to issue the licenses and record the details in county records.

Don't disagree about having to get a marriage license in the first place or about the stupid disparities in taxes for two single individuals vs two married individuals or the tax breaks for kids.

Solve the whole mess by getting government out of the marriage issue completely. You want to get married, fine go to your church and if they allow it then let them perform the ceremony. Everything else is a civil union that any two people (M/F or same sex) can simply set up via POA, trusts, wills, etc.

With identical household income, two people living together but not married should be paying the same taxes as two people living together and married. If I have kids, that expense should be on me. They are children not tax write-offs.

And for the record I'm married and have three kids.

She has issued to mixed couples, so you are wrong to say she wouldn't. And what you called nonsense was the law. So now you say following the law was nonsense but she is wrong for not following the law. Now you have me confused.
The legislature can't do anything to change the courts decisions, so what go would getting elected there do ?
When police decide to not write tickets as a labor action, should they go to jail for not doing their job ? And it is her right to not be forced to do something against her beliefs If the people she answers to don't like her job performance then she will be voted out of office. I don't know if even the legislature has grounds to impeach her.

What is really funny is all the people not in her county that are so upset. How does what she does effect any of them ? And like I said, if it's up to the courts to decide who can get married than why isn't it the court issuing the permits.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote: How much attention would her stand gotten if she had just quit ?
Why should she quit ? People on both sides are looking for their 15 minutes of fame.
The judge put her in jail because a fine wouldn't have had any effect on her.
How many of you would stand up for your beliefs enough to go to jail ? None of us can truthfully answer that until the time comes.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

How much attention would her stand gotten if she had just quit ?
Why should she quit ? People on both sides are looking for their 15 minutes of fame.
The judge put her in jail because a fine wouldn't have had any effect on her.
How many of you would stand up for your beliefs enough to go to jail ? None of us can truthfully answer that until the time comes.

Probably about as much as when the ones quit in Tn a few months ago. An I really doubt she is actually in a jail cell. She is the county clerk. She is probably in the jailers break room playing cards with the jailers. I had a firemen friend that served time for child support. The cell was never closed. That was the same time I was taking EMR training. He took it too an was at every class... On paper he was in jail though.


As for why she should quit? When Mathew an Zacchaeus met Jesus, I believe both quit being tax collectors. In my opinion, the Christian thing to do would be to follow their example.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
There are low risk inmates all across the country that never see the inside of a cell. There are thousands that are released everyday to go to work, then go back to jail. There are even some that just go to jail on weekends.

As far as what you would do only applies to you. I wouldn't do as she has done or as you would do. We all make our own choices.

 

[hemet dennis]

Quote:
Those ones that just quit, got very little press.

 

[MrsBrooke]

Also, Moses took an "Ethiopian wife," and the Creator doled out some leprosy to those who spoke against it.

Forbidding interracial marriage is something MAN decided to do.

The Bible is, however, fairly clear in regards to opinions on homosexuality.

China held a massive military parade/demonstration. They brought out all their new shinies. The West and a few of their interests were markedly inattendant.

I feel like we are hurtling towards a cataclysm going about 1,000 mph.

MrsB

 

[Rosa moschata]

Also, Moses took an "Ethiopian wife," and the Creator doled out some leprosy to those who spoke against it.

Forbidding interracial marriage is something MAN decided to do.

The Bible is, however, fairly clear in regards to opinions on homosexuality.

China held a massive military parade/demonstration. They brought out all their new shinies. The West and a few of their interests were markedly inattendant.

I feel like we are hurtling towards a cataclysm going about 1,000 mph.

MrsB

If you choose to follow that book, do so. But that doesn't mean you have to make everyone else do it. If you try that with me, I'll tell you what I REALLY think of it -- and it won't be pretty. It's not difficult to discredit it as a moral reference, or as a guidebook for law or public policy in the US. But, hey, if it motivates you personally, that's all fine and good.

I've read it, Old and New, every story, every page. There are far more verses about what not to eat than there are about homosexuality, yet those seem to be ignored with no problem. "Ah, but Jesus did away with the laws of the Old Testament". Really? Then why do you keep referencing things from the same section?

Perhaps a "real Christian" in that situation would remember to "give to Caesar what is Caesar's" and do her job. And also perhaps "...and when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets so that they might be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their recompense."

 

[Gargoyle]

A government agent has a requirement to treat everyone the same no matter what they think of the person or their actions. A government agent doing otherwise should have the full force off the law brought down on them.

Agreed. The same people who claim this is a "religious liberty" issue would be up in arms calling for the death penalty on a Quaker government official who blocked issuance of any gun permits or gun store licenses because it violated his religious beliefs. Or, what about an orthodox Jewish health inspector who wouldn't issue permits to allow restaurants, grocery stores or butcher shops that sold pork or shellfish to operate, since consuming those is a direct violation of biblical law. Or a Muslim director of a motor vehicle agency who would not permit drivers licenses to be issued to women.

We are a nation of laws. If any individual government official could block the implementation of those laws because of their personal beliefs or feelings, we would become an anarchy, not a democracy. If we only let people of one specific religion, or one specific branch of one religion, let their beliefs trump the law, while not permitting the examples above for other religions, we become a taliban type state governed by the equivalent of sharia law.

 

[WYNot]

No, I meant that she would be one of the ones who refused to provide marriage license to a mixed couple even after the law said you had to. Again, if she can't do her job as prescribed by law, she needs to quit.

As for the legislature affecting the courts... My understanding is that the legislature can most certainly tell the courts that they may not hear cases on a given topic. Might just be at the federal level though.

As for the police... From a city official's viewpoint, then yes they should be fired for failure to do their duty. Personally, I could care less if they write tickets. They are little more than revenue generators any more and any time they steal less money from the people is a good time.

Because issuing permits is an executive function. Courts rule on cases and executive branch administer the laws.

She has issued to mixed couples, so you are wrong to say she wouldn't. And what you called nonsense was the law. So now you say following the law was nonsense but she is wrong for not following the law. Now you have me confused.
The legislature can't do anything to change the courts decisions, so what go would getting elected there do ? 
When police decide to not write tickets as a labor action, should they go to jail for not doing their job ? And it is her right to not be forced to do something against her beliefs If the people she answers to don't like her job performance then she will be voted out of office. I don't know if even the legislature has grounds to impeach her.

What is really funny is all the people not in her county that are so upset. How does what she does effect any of them ? And like I said, if it's up to the courts to decide who can get married than why isn't it the court issuing the permits.