Greenfire Farms Birds and Avian Leukosis - Mareks Disease - Infectious Bronchitis - Mycoplasma synoviae

[Livingthehenlife]

I read this with interest since I believe some Greenfire stock is weak and more susceptible to disease. They acknowledge this possibility themselves on their website. One obvious reason is that many of their breeds are sourced from extremely limited gene pools. Another is that many of their breeds are very recent imports brought from countries that may have different strains of disease than we do in the US. Birds that are genetically weaker and don't have exposure to common local pathogens are less likely to be resistant to them. Deathlayers are a good example. I've heard so many stories about how hard they are to raise to adulthood. Greenfire did the work and paid the money to bring these new breeds to the US. Getting them established here is a whole other challenge.

I'm not sure how your necropsy results support your suspicion that the illnesses came from GFF. Marek's is not passed vertically through eggs and even if the parent flock was infected, chicks would hatch clean. Marek's is easily transmitted through airborne particles. It can be on your property even if you don't have other chickens and can travel from neighboring properties up to 3 miles away. It can make its way inside house on shoes, hair and clothing. By the time they reach adulthood, most chickens have been exposed.

You and the other person who got chicks at the same time both had sick birds but your necropsy results were different. Lymphoid leukosis and Marek's are similar but still distinct. They make infected birds very susceptible to other illnesses like coccidiosis, infectious bronchitis, and mycoplasma all of which are also very common. You also had some birds from Greenfire that didn't get sick. This isn't too surprising. There are many studies about Marek's susceptibility and resistance between breeds and individual lines.

You're right when you suggest it would be a scandal for Greenfire to be shipping sick chicks all over the country, but these necropsies don't prove what you seem to think they do. I've read posts here and other places. I've come to my own conclusion that working with imported breeds is a huge risk and not necessarily worth the expense involved in the initial purchase price which is also very high.

I received my order 3 weeks ago from GFF and I did experience the loss of 4/14 birds but they also sent 4 extra, I ordered 10. They were incredibly responsive and offered helpful suggestions to preserve the rest of the flock. I did not request any sort of refund or free replacement #1 because these things happen and often it’s not on the breeder #2 they sent extras that covered losses.

You make an excellent point about establishing imported breeds and the risks associated. In my case, they suspected coccidiosis, I treated the flock accordingly and all remaining birds are in good health.

I’m more than happy with GFF and will happily continue to invest in more of their birds in the future. In fact I’ve already placed another order. I don’t think I’ll order live birds anywhere else...

 

[Happydragonfly411]

I am looking for other people who have received sick birds from Greenfire farms to file a formal complaint with NPIP and other state or federal regulatory agencies. My concern is the farm is acting as a reservoir for fatal avian diseases that are being nationally distributed by their operation. Please message me if interested. So far the breeds I have heard feedback on having the same symptoms are the Silver (they call birchen) Marans, Cream Legbars, Bielefelder and Rhodebar, however this is only after talking to 4 different former customers.

In November 2019 I ordered 4 Silver (GFF Blue Birchen Marans) and 4 Silverudds Blues (GFF Swedish Isbar).

They very generously sent me 4 extra birds - the Marans were $60 each and the Isbars were $30 each, and I was very impressed with the service and shipping quality. The birds were healthy and strong upon arrival. I raised these chicks in a refrigerator box in my garage with no cross-contamination from my healthy flock who were always outside. My adult flock never had any illness or coccidia and the entire flock previously came from My Pet Chicken. In fact our first home hatch from those birds had a 100% hatch rate with super healthy chicks as well.

Around 4 weeks I started to notice one of the new blue marans always looked sleepy, fell asleep for no reason constantly, and squinted all the time. I stupidly assumed breeding defect rather than researching. Around 6 weeks one of these birds who seemed very healthy previously started to become lame, and that eventually progressed into sleeping all the time and unable to walk at all. Around 10 weeks patient zero dropped dead overnight. At the same time one of the cockerels became symptomatic, same constant sleeping and squinty eyes and pale comb. He dropped dead 2 weeks later. We finally put the extremely disabled pullet down at that time. Two weeks later another pullet and cockerel became symptomatic. The cockerel seemed to improve with medication for coccidia, but crashed suddenly one day and died shortly after. He was about 16 weeks old, and I took him for a necropsy at the state agriculture department in TN. The attached filed "Pathology_report_Birchen_Marans" is the pathology report. We are planning to put the other symptomatic female down next week so we can take the body in immediately for necropsy (this is important because the structures that diagnose break down within hours). We also had a severe outbreak of coccidiosis at the 10-12 week mark and we thought this had been the issue. When it didn't resolve with antibiotics and Corid, and birds kept dying, we knew there was something more. Strangely my Silverudds Blues are all healthy (once we passed the coccidia outbreak).

The official diagnosis is Avian Leukosis. It is viral and causes lymphoma. There is no treatment and no vaccine. Early infection like these birds had will lead to lifetime shedding of the virus through egg yolk, albumin and feces. This means the disease can be passed from mother to baby via egg, and "horizontally" to anyone else via feces. The only way to eliminate it from your flock is to cull the entire flock, disinfect, and start again. The virus is easily killed by standard disinfection. Needless to say breeding eggs or chicks for reproduction is totally out. It has a long incubation period so you do not usually see it in chicks until around 16 weeks. Birds exposed after 12-20 weeks of age according to Merck will not become lifetime shedders of virus. One website said it can be passed through reproduction, but another journal article I read said that hasn't been proven. According to my vet the only definitive way to diagnosis is through examination within hours after death, however a DVM on facebook said there is now a reliable PCR test?

I am frustrated, heartbroken, and still reeling over how to deal with it. We will likely cull anyone symptomatic and see how the adult birds deal with it before culling the flock. The following circumstances and facts lead me to believe the illness originated in the hatchery:

The long incubation period
The lack of exposure of the GF birds to any birds in my flock or any other birds or people around other birds
The very good health of my adult birds
The symptoms being 100% restricted to the group of chicks from GFF
The virus being communicable from mother to chick via yolk and albumin

If you have chickens sick or dropping dead - I suggest taking them to your state agriculture lab which is generally very easy to find on the internet and they do the necropsy (that's an animal autopsy) and all associated testing for Mareks etc - sometimes for free or reduced price on non-companion species. Make sure to take the animal in immediately after death or refrigerate just above freezing until you can - the structures that assist in diagnosis decompose rapidly.

Another acquaintance of mine (who I met online because we both bought birds from the same hatch date from GFF) just had her dead birds necropsied - the report showed Mareks, Infectious Bronchitis, Coccidiosis, and Mycoplasma synoviae. They are attached.

I bought from them a few months ago and had 1 of 6 get sick, culled this week after trying to nurse it to health and sent in for necropsy, preliminary result is Mareks . Now I feel horrible for trying to keep it alive for fear that it’s shed virus has reached my other chickens. Although my egg layers are vaccinated I hate the thought of them being carriers. I have some young white laced red Cornish that are not vaccinated and I have not seen signs of the virus in them. Anyone have tips on how to run a small farm with chickens carrying Mareks? I wanted to do educational events but now I’m questioning it. Maybe a disclaimer that Mareks may be on the property?

 

[Folly's place]

I'm so sorry!
I'd want a definite diagnosis, and some testing done on other birds in my flock. talk to the pathologist, I think there are tests that can be done on live birds.
If your flock does have Marek's disease, it would be irresponsible to have visitors at your chicken coop at the very least. Biosecurity matters!
Mary
I think several people on this site have infected flocks that they are managing well. Check @EggSighted4Life , who might be one of them.

 

[Matt_675]

I am looking for other people who have received sick birds from Greenfire farms to file a formal complaint with NPIP and other state or federal regulatory agencies. My concern is the farm is acting as a reservoir for fatal avian diseases that are being nationally distributed by their operation. Please message me if interested. So far the breeds I have heard feedback on having the same symptoms are the Silver (they call birchen) Marans, Cream Legbars, Bielefelder and Rhodebar, however this is only after talking to 4 different former customers.

In November 2019 I ordered 4 Silver (GFF Blue Birchen Marans) and 4 Silverudds Blues (GFF Swedish Isbar).

They very generously sent me 4 extra birds - the Marans were $60 each and the Isbars were $30 each, and I was very impressed with the service and shipping quality. The birds were healthy and strong upon arrival. I raised these chicks in a refrigerator box in my garage with no cross-contamination from my healthy flock who were always outside. My adult flock never had any illness or coccidia and the entire flock previously came from My Pet Chicken. In fact our first home hatch from those birds had a 100% hatch rate with super healthy chicks as well.

Around 4 weeks I started to notice one of the new blue marans always looked sleepy, fell asleep for no reason constantly, and squinted all the time. I stupidly assumed breeding defect rather than researching. Around 6 weeks one of these birds who seemed very healthy previously started to become lame, and that eventually progressed into sleeping all the time and unable to walk at all. Around 10 weeks patient zero dropped dead overnight. At the same time one of the cockerels became symptomatic, same constant sleeping and squinty eyes and pale comb. He dropped dead 2 weeks later. We finally put the extremely disabled pullet down at that time. Two weeks later another pullet and cockerel became symptomatic. The cockerel seemed to improve with medication for coccidia, but crashed suddenly one day and died shortly after. He was about 16 weeks old, and I took him for a necropsy at the state agriculture department in TN. The attached filed "Pathology_report_Birchen_Marans" is the pathology report. We are planning to put the other symptomatic female down next week so we can take the body in immediately for necropsy (this is important because the structures that diagnose break down within hours). We also had a severe outbreak of coccidiosis at the 10-12 week mark and we thought this had been the issue. When it didn't resolve with antibiotics and Corid, and birds kept dying, we knew there was something more. Strangely my Silverudds Blues are all healthy (once we passed the coccidia outbreak).

The official diagnosis is Avian Leukosis. It is viral and causes lymphoma. There is no treatment and no vaccine. Early infection like these birds had will lead to lifetime shedding of the virus through egg yolk, albumin and feces. This means the disease can be passed from mother to baby via egg, and "horizontally" to anyone else via feces. The only way to eliminate it from your flock is to cull the entire flock, disinfect, and start again. The virus is easily killed by standard disinfection. Needless to say breeding eggs or chicks for reproduction is totally out. It has a long incubation period so you do not usually see it in chicks until around 16 weeks. Birds exposed after 12-20 weeks of age according to Merck will not become lifetime shedders of virus. One website said it can be passed through reproduction, but another journal article I read said that hasn't been proven. According to my vet the only definitive way to diagnosis is through examination within hours after death, however a DVM on facebook said there is now a reliable PCR test?

I am frustrated, heartbroken, and still reeling over how to deal with it. We will likely cull anyone symptomatic and see how the adult birds deal with it before culling the flock. The following circumstances and facts lead me to believe the illness originated in the hatchery:

The long incubation period
The lack of exposure of the GF birds to any birds in my flock or any other birds or people around other birds
The very good health of my adult birds
The symptoms being 100% restricted to the group of chicks from GFF
The virus being communicable from mother to chick via yolk and albumin

If you have chickens sick or dropping dead - I suggest taking them to your state agriculture lab which is generally very easy to find on the internet and they do the necropsy (that's an animal autopsy) and all associated testing for Mareks etc - sometimes for free or reduced price on non-companion species. Make sure to take the animal in immediately after death or refrigerate just above freezing until you can - the structures that assist in diagnosis decompose rapidly.

Another acquaintance of mine (who I met online because we both bought birds from the same hatch date from GFF) just had her dead birds necropsied - the report showed Mareks, Infectious Bronchitis, Coccidiosis, and Mycoplasma synoviae. They are attached.

So I ordered from GFF last year and ordered 10 chicks with 4 extra sent of the crevecoeurs. So 13 lived after 3 months they started to die along with my original flock of 6 that I had for 3 years. (The flock of 6 was from cackle hatchery) anyway after the death I contacted my vet and come to find out they had coccidiosis. I was so upset bc my 6 chickens that I had for 3 years it killed them all! Even after treating. I met this lady in my hometown that had ordered from green fire farms a few different breeds and same issues. I am in a group where everyone says the same things like this about GFF!

 

[BirdsBeesTrees]

So I ordered from GFF last year and ordered 10 chicks with 4 extra sent of the crevecoeurs. So 13 lived after 3 months they started to die along with my original flock of 6 that I had for 3 years. (The flock of 6 was from cackle hatchery) anyway after the death I contacted my vet and come to find out they had coccidiosis. I was so upset bc my 6 chickens that I had for 3 years it killed them all! Even after treating. I met this lady in my hometown that had ordered from green fire farms a few different breeds and same issues. I am in a group where everyone says the same things like this about GFF!

Coccidiosis is something most poultry owners deal with. It doesn't have to be deadly, you just give them some treatment of Corid in their water.

 

[lisa69]

I had a opposite experience. I got deathlayer pullets from a local breeder( with Mareks ) and my greenfire birds are the only survivors, They were vaccinated at the hatchery.

 

[lisa69]

I asked Greenfire and they openly readily admit that do not do flock testing on Marek's disease or avian Leukosis. (I can't find ANY hatchery that does} NPIP does not require it. They have changed their protocol and now they vaccinate all chicks for Marek's disease unless told not to in advance of your order. There is not vaccine for Avian leukosis, and it can be passed from the hen to the eggs. So everyone is warned, and they don't hide it. They do have information on the website, warning buyers of the difficulties of buying imported birds, with poor immunity to our strains of the very common viruses. Since some of these birds are imported through Greenfire only, we all HAVE THE SAME STOCK. That is the situation you are choosing, when you buy there. Additionally keeping a positive flock is a biohazard and possibly a danger to wild birds. You can do PCR testing to see where your flock stands from RAL labs without a prescription. The USDA has just pulled back a lot of the restrictions, on these diseases in those big production barns for broilers and layers , so the situation will get worse.

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

So I ordered from GFF last year and ordered 10 chicks with 4 extra sent of the crevecoeurs. So 13 lived after 3 months they started to die along with my original flock of 6 that I had for 3 years. (The flock of 6 was from cackle hatchery) anyway after the death I contacted my vet and come to find out they had coccidiosis. I was so upset bc my 6 chickens that I had for 3 years it killed them all! Even after treating. I met this lady in my hometown that had ordered from green fire farms a few different breeds and same issues. I am in a group where everyone says the same things like this about GFF!

Coccidiosis is found in soil. Your chicks likely picked it up when they moved outside. And that is perfectly normal. Its kind of like staph in humans-we all have it living on our skin and hair but it only becomes a problem when it gets out of control in an open wound. You can't blame a hatchery for something that lives in the soil and chickens' guts normally. I have had a grown bird die of it but she was otherwise weak and I didn't know what was going on well enough to treat her in time.

 

[lisa69]

I am looking for other people who have received sick birds from Greenfire farms to file a formal complaint with NPIP and other state or federal regulatory agencies. My concern is the farm is acting as a reservoir for fatal avian diseases that are being nationally distributed by their operation. Please message me if interested. So far the breeds I have heard feedback on having the same symptoms are the Silver (they call birchen) Marans, Cream Legbars, Bielefelder and Rhodebar, however this is only after talking to 4 different former customers.

In November 2019 I ordered 4 Silver (GFF Blue Birchen Marans) and 4 Silverudds Blues (GFF Swedish Isbar).

They very generously sent me 4 extra birds - the Marans were $60 each and the Isbars were $30 each, and I was very impressed with the service and shipping quality. The birds were healthy and strong upon arrival. I raised these chicks in a refrigerator box in my garage with no cross-contamination from my healthy flock who were always outside. My adult flock never had any illness or coccidia and the entire flock previously came from My Pet Chicken. In fact our first home hatch from those birds had a 100% hatch rate with super healthy chicks as well.

Around 4 weeks I started to notice one of the new blue marans always looked sleepy, fell asleep for no reason constantly, and squinted all the time. I stupidly assumed breeding defect rather than researching. Around 6 weeks one of these birds who seemed very healthy previously started to become lame, and that eventually progressed into sleeping all the time and unable to walk at all. Around 10 weeks patient zero dropped dead overnight. At the same time one of the cockerels became symptomatic, same constant sleeping and squinty eyes and pale comb. He dropped dead 2 weeks later. We finally put the extremely disabled pullet down at that time. Two weeks later another pullet and cockerel became symptomatic. The cockerel seemed to improve with medication for coccidia, but crashed suddenly one day and died shortly after. He was about 16 weeks old, and I took him for a necropsy at the state agriculture department in TN. The attached filed "Pathology_report_Birchen_Marans" is the pathology report. We are planning to put the other symptomatic female down next week so we can take the body in immediately for necropsy (this is important because the structures that diagnose break down within hours). We also had a severe outbreak of coccidiosis at the 10-12 week mark and we thought this had been the issue. When it didn't resolve with antibiotics and Corid, and birds kept dying, we knew there was something more. Strangely my Silverudds Blues are all healthy (once we passed the coccidia outbreak).

The official diagnosis is Avian Leukosis. It is viral and causes lymphoma. There is no treatment and no vaccine. Early infection like these birds had will lead to lifetime shedding of the virus through egg yolk, albumin and feces. This means the disease can be passed from mother to baby via egg, and "horizontally" to anyone else via feces. The only way to eliminate it from your flock is to cull the entire flock, disinfect, and start again. The virus is easily killed by standard disinfection. Needless to say breeding eggs or chicks for reproduction is totally out. It has a long incubation period so you do not usually see it in chicks until around 16 weeks. Birds exposed after 12-20 weeks of age according to Merck will not become lifetime shedders of virus. One website said it can be passed through reproduction, but another journal article I read said that hasn't been proven. According to my vet the only definitive way to diagnosis is through examination within hours after death, however a DVM on facebook said there is now a reliable PCR test?

I am frustrated, heartbroken, and still reeling over how to deal with it. We will likely cull anyone symptomatic and see how the adult birds deal with it before culling the flock. The following circumstances and facts lead me to believe the illness originated in the hatchery:

The long incubation period
The lack of exposure of the GF birds to any birds in my flock or any other birds or people around other birds
The very good health of my adult birds
The symptoms being 100% restricted to the group of chicks from GFF
The virus being communicable from mother to chick via yolk and albumin

If you have chickens sick or dropping dead - I suggest taking them to your state agriculture lab which is generally very easy to find on the internet and they do the necropsy (that's an animal autopsy) and all associated testing for Mareks etc - sometimes for free or reduced price on non-companion species. Make sure to take the animal in immediately after death or refrigerate just above freezing until you can - the structures that assist in diagnosis decompose rapidly.

Another acquaintance of mine (who I met online because we both bought birds from the same hatch date from GFF) just had her dead birds necropsied - the report showed Mareks, Infectious Bronchitis, Coccidiosis, and Mycoplasma synoviae. They are attached.

saw this on their website today

 

[lisa69]

From the Greenfire website