FrankHomestead
Songster
Just a small place in west Michigan, 5 acres, only have 6 chickens as of now. We have coyotes, hawks, coons, opossums,and bobcats.
Guard dogs
- Thread starter Cooper Gs Coop
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Just a small place in west Michigan, 5 acres, only have 6 chickens as of now. We have coyotes, hawks, coons, opossums,and bobcats.
It's hard to get breed specific, but in my opinion I don't know that an LGD breed would be for you. You'll have to ask those who know more than I do about them, but I feel they are an animal that needs a job and a lot more space than 5 acres. I would avoid any terrier breed because they seem to have a higher prey drive. I prefer a big dog, but it has nothing to do with guarding or protection. I just like lab-sized dogs. Do your chickens free range? Are they in a secure coop at night? Those things make a difference, too. If they're in a run most of the time, your best bet for their security would be a few strands of electric fence around the outside of your coop and run. If you're worried about your kids and electric fence, just unplug it when they go out to play.
FrankHomestead
Songster
They do not free range for their protection, but I wish I could let them. Thank you for your help!
You're welcome. If they are in a run, you really don't NEED a dog to protect them if it's secure. If you really want a dog, I would think about what kind of dog I want. Active? Laid back? Low prey drive? Read, read, read, and find out what type of dog will fit into your family best. I'm not advocating spending hundreds of dollars on a registered or even purebred dog, but once you find out what kinds of breeds fit your family's personality, you can maybe find a purebred or mix of breeds that might suit you. Of course, each dog is an individual and may not have read the same books as you, so the one you pick may not have all the traits it's "supposed to". Whatever you do, work with the dog around your chickens. Don't just throw a dog out there thinking it will automatically want to protect them. It may just see a bunch of self-propelled squeaky toys and enjoy them to the fullest (until they quit flapping and squeaking...) I know you wouldn't do this, but there are people who would.They do not free range for their protection, but I wish I could let them. Thank you for your help!
Thanks tasty acres - I saw you posted a question in the other forum the other day, I have not been in there in a long time….its a topic I'm working on a blog post for. I am glad you decided on a Bernese Mt. Dog - and hope you can find a reputable breeder!
LadyVictorian
Songster
I'll have to say in my 27 years growing up on a farm the most of the dogs my father ever had to kill were all LSD breeds. Most other dogs got the point and wandered off after the first time being chased off but a collie dog attacked one of our Arabian foals who was a budding halter horse and ended up with scars so bad we couldn't show her. LGD might be choice but they are far from perfect breeds either. My parents also used Dobermans for 30+ years to look after the horses and our ducks and chickens and we had one incident out of over 25 dogs and it was more so because she was a show ring dog, not a farm dog and was a bit temperamental. Chomper even ripped apart a feral cat who was stalking the coop when we had newly hatched bantams and later that day snuggled out barn cat Spot. Only reason we can't keep the Dobermans out in the yard anymore is because of the counties new leash laws that state a dog must be fenced in at all times or on a leash or they can be taken away. This passed after a border collie mix brutally mauled a small child mind you. Not to forget the BMD that attacked my best friends dog when she was taking him for a walk. Yes they were bred for guarding but it's more to do with training than just the breed.I have seen more LGD breeds turn into total nightmares without proper training that say a lab or a retriever. In fact like I have said, around here we have shot and killed more LGD breeds than any other. 2 Rottweilers, one black lab, and about every version of a collie, Australian Shepard, and border collie you can think of. As for my Dobermans they would never leave the yard even if you had broken into our house. They would have run you off the property (and once Jasmine did run a guy off the property trying to take a car) and then turned back at the fence.
FYI our dobermans killed coyote's too. Rex and Smith even let the wonderful born up animal on the front lawn for us to find one morning and were so **** proud of it. At the same time they would lay next to sunbathing hens and I could be left home alone so long as the dogs were right there with me. We live on a busy highway and even as a 2 year old my parents wouldn't follow me around because if I started heading for the road and dog would knock me over and start barking frantically.Would never trade my Doberman's in for any other dog breed on this earth and never will. They are such a well rounded breed that really can do it all. FYI Jasmine also whooped every dog in agility AND obediance when I did 4H. xD
FYI our dobermans killed coyote's too. Rex and Smith even let the wonderful born up animal on the front lawn for us to find one morning and were so **** proud of it. At the same time they would lay next to sunbathing hens and I could be left home alone so long as the dogs were right there with me. We live on a busy highway and even as a 2 year old my parents wouldn't follow me around because if I started heading for the road and dog would knock me over and start barking frantically.Would never trade my Doberman's in for any other dog breed on this earth and never will. They are such a well rounded breed that really can do it all. FYI Jasmine also whooped every dog in agility AND obediance when I did 4H. xD
LadyVictorian
Songster
And on top of it they fail to add that even LGD need LOTS of training to even be safe around poultry. They instinctively protect larger livestock but I have seen just as many LGD eat chickens up and rip an owners flock apart because that isn't instinct to them. I think someone on this forum even mentioned their LGD puppy killed some of their chickens or that might have been on a facebook forum as well.Training training training is the key word here. Any dog breed can be trained and it takes more than the breed to make them chicken safe. Hell my cousins pitbull is chicken friendly and safe and loves my silkies. He also loves cats, other dogs, and is a therapy animal at her mothers nursing home. TRAINING is priority to BREED.
I have a dog savvy background. LGB are great with flocks (Sheep, goats, cattle) but so can donkeys and llamas be also.
On this particular forum, Backyard Chickens, I think the vast majority of members have less than one hundred birds. Many who keep chickens in their backyards have ten or less. And a backyard might well be too small for certain LGD's.
If you happen to have a large breed dog who gets along and protects your chickens, fine. You're ahead of the game, but to go get a large dog with the corresponding appetite and add in the vet care, monthly heartworm medication and monthly flea and tick treatments, you're paying an awful lot to protect a few chickens. fine if the dog is your pet, an expense otherwise,
Your first step is in identifying your predators then you can know what steps need to be taken to protect your birds. Sure some areas have coyotes and maybe lynx or bears but on this list that might well be the exception.
Our predators are mostly foxes and hawks. We have possums and raccoons but they are out only at night when the birds are locked up and we've never ever lost a bird to them or skunks.
Our English Shepherd in addition to being a great herding and guardian dog was a wonderful pet, too. (I consider this to be my dogs' most important job.) We lost him at almost 16 last fall and haven't gotten around to getting another so in the meantime we have shelties.
They're more an alarm clock but adequate for the predators we have. The youngest one, at only a year is a hoot. If he hears a warning cry, usually a hawk) he'll get the birds into their covered runs or under the huge lilac bush (Maybe 20 feet across) then hang outside with them for a bit. And woe to the chicken who thinks she is going to stick her hear out before he feels it is safe.
The shelties also are titled in agility, obedience and tracking so they are full service dogs able to fill various slots.
So if your dog fills the bill for you, that's what counts, and there are many breeds that can wear different hats so just because your dog is a different breed, don't discount him. If he's good with your family and other pets, that is what matters most.
On this particular forum, Backyard Chickens, I think the vast majority of members have less than one hundred birds. Many who keep chickens in their backyards have ten or less. And a backyard might well be too small for certain LGD's.
If you happen to have a large breed dog who gets along and protects your chickens, fine. You're ahead of the game, but to go get a large dog with the corresponding appetite and add in the vet care, monthly heartworm medication and monthly flea and tick treatments, you're paying an awful lot to protect a few chickens. fine if the dog is your pet, an expense otherwise,
Your first step is in identifying your predators then you can know what steps need to be taken to protect your birds. Sure some areas have coyotes and maybe lynx or bears but on this list that might well be the exception.
Our predators are mostly foxes and hawks. We have possums and raccoons but they are out only at night when the birds are locked up and we've never ever lost a bird to them or skunks.
Our English Shepherd in addition to being a great herding and guardian dog was a wonderful pet, too. (I consider this to be my dogs' most important job.) We lost him at almost 16 last fall and haven't gotten around to getting another so in the meantime we have shelties.
They're more an alarm clock but adequate for the predators we have. The youngest one, at only a year is a hoot. If he hears a warning cry, usually a hawk) he'll get the birds into their covered runs or under the huge lilac bush (Maybe 20 feet across) then hang outside with them for a bit. And woe to the chicken who thinks she is going to stick her hear out before he feels it is safe.
The shelties also are titled in agility, obedience and tracking so they are full service dogs able to fill various slots.
So if your dog fills the bill for you, that's what counts, and there are many breeds that can wear different hats so just because your dog is a different breed, don't discount him. If he's good with your family and other pets, that is what matters most.
I would venture to say most people on here don't have a real need for a true LGD. Unless you literally want a dog that stays with your livestock 24/7, then look into a LGD from proven LGD breeding lines.
As far as having your pets co exist peacefully with your flock, that depends on the individual dog AND training. An adult, pet LGD that has never been around chickens or livestock isn't any more likely to guard them or be safe around them than your **average** dog.
Now some dogs will be more likely to cause problems, high drive terriers (for example) would be hard pressed to be safe around small, erratically moving birds. Most dogs with proper training will be safe around your flock under supervision. You just have to decide if you want to put the time into training and risk the possibility of injuring your flock of something goes wrong.
Personally I have 4 Dobermans. They are ALL fantastic farm dogs in their own right. My 8 year old male show dog and my 2 year old female show dog are great ratters. My male has brought me as many as 15 rats in a 10 minute time frame when we went to a friend's farm that was overrun with rats. While he is awesome with people and dogs of all sizes, he is NOT cat, small rodent, avian, or livestock safe. But he is impeccably trained so under supervision, it isn't a problem. My 2 year old female (I show dogs btw so I am trying to remember to say female and not b**** but it is hard, so please excuse me if I slip up) is a great ratter but was on the road with a professional handler for a year training for and attaining her AKC Championship, so her training is extremely lacking right now, so she is on leash around any new animals right now until I can fully assess where she is at after being gone a year and getting her training under control.
My 4 year old retired show girl is safe around anything. She did not inherit her father's drive for hunting ANYTHING except squirrels. My 11 year old rescue is safe around EVERYTHING. She has raised anything from kittens, chickens, pet birds, squirrels, opossums, deer, you name it.
I think everyone should read the blog being referenced because we can **all** benefit from it (either by learning something new or seeing something we have known from another standpoint). That being said I would never leave any animal around my livestock (no matter what breed or training) without knowing that **something** could go wrong because at the end of the day, they are animals. I also do not condone leaving small children alone with any animals unsupervised (livestock or pets) for the same reason. They are animals and most children can not, or just don't bother, reading signals well.
At the end of the day you must remember they are animals, they have instincts, and instinct will always trump training if pushed to a certain point
As far as having your pets co exist peacefully with your flock, that depends on the individual dog AND training. An adult, pet LGD that has never been around chickens or livestock isn't any more likely to guard them or be safe around them than your **average** dog.
Now some dogs will be more likely to cause problems, high drive terriers (for example) would be hard pressed to be safe around small, erratically moving birds. Most dogs with proper training will be safe around your flock under supervision. You just have to decide if you want to put the time into training and risk the possibility of injuring your flock of something goes wrong.
Personally I have 4 Dobermans. They are ALL fantastic farm dogs in their own right. My 8 year old male show dog and my 2 year old female show dog are great ratters. My male has brought me as many as 15 rats in a 10 minute time frame when we went to a friend's farm that was overrun with rats. While he is awesome with people and dogs of all sizes, he is NOT cat, small rodent, avian, or livestock safe. But he is impeccably trained so under supervision, it isn't a problem. My 2 year old female (I show dogs btw so I am trying to remember to say female and not b**** but it is hard, so please excuse me if I slip up) is a great ratter but was on the road with a professional handler for a year training for and attaining her AKC Championship, so her training is extremely lacking right now, so she is on leash around any new animals right now until I can fully assess where she is at after being gone a year and getting her training under control.
My 4 year old retired show girl is safe around anything. She did not inherit her father's drive for hunting ANYTHING except squirrels. My 11 year old rescue is safe around EVERYTHING. She has raised anything from kittens, chickens, pet birds, squirrels, opossums, deer, you name it.
I think everyone should read the blog being referenced because we can **all** benefit from it (either by learning something new or seeing something we have known from another standpoint). That being said I would never leave any animal around my livestock (no matter what breed or training) without knowing that **something** could go wrong because at the end of the day, they are animals. I also do not condone leaving small children alone with any animals unsupervised (livestock or pets) for the same reason. They are animals and most children can not, or just don't bother, reading signals well.
At the end of the day you must remember they are animals, they have instincts, and instinct will always trump training if pushed to a certain point
I now own the best dog I have EVER had with chickens! She is a Neapolitan Mastiff. My Cane Corso runs a close second. I think it all boils down to the individual dog though I am sure some breeds are predisposed to being "better" with poultry.
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