Guineas of a different color- Vulturine Hybrids!

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
They most likely are hence the word hybrid versus cross. But why do you hope they are? Just curious.

Because I see what a mess has happened with peafowl (admittedly, the blue and green species are more closely related than the vulterine and helmeted guineafowl). I'd hate for the vulturine hybrids to be fertile, then get bred back to vulturines in an attempt that mirrors the spalding for people who can't keep pure greens because of climate. The end result of the quest for ever higher percentages of green blood in spaldings is that unscrupulous sellers pass them off as pure greens, and then the gene pool for pure greens is contaminated. And, the spaldings that look "too blue" end up contaminating the blue gene pool. The result, in peafowl, is that virtually all in captivity are hybrids, knowingly or not.

P.S. I'm not saying that spaldings aren't beautiful. But I wish that they didn't become so ambiguous that those seeking pure blue or pure green now have to usually be satisfied with "almost."

:-/

Ah... but if they are fertile they are a crossbred rather then a hybrid. Typically a hybrid is a cross between two animals of the same genus but different species, like a Donkey and a horse to make a mule.

Been around horses too long.... sorry about the analogy....

 

[AquaEyes]

perchie.girl :

Quote:
Because I see what a mess has happened with peafowl (admittedly, the blue and green species are more closely related than the vulterine and helmeted guineafowl). I'd hate for the vulturine hybrids to be fertile, then get bred back to vulturines in an attempt that mirrors the spalding for people who can't keep pure greens because of climate. The end result of the quest for ever higher percentages of green blood in spaldings is that unscrupulous sellers pass them off as pure greens, and then the gene pool for pure greens is contaminated. And, the spaldings that look "too blue" end up contaminating the blue gene pool. The result, in peafowl, is that virtually all in captivity are hybrids, knowingly or not.

P.S. I'm not saying that spaldings aren't beautiful. But I wish that they didn't become so ambiguous that those seeking pure blue or pure green now have to usually be satisfied with "almost."

:-/

Ah... but if they are fertile they are a crossbred rather then a hybrid. Typically a hybrid is a cross between two animals of the same genus but different species, like a Donkey and a horse to make a mule.

Been around horses too long.... sorry about the analogy....

The two types of guineas are different species, AND different genera. They are not different "breeds" of guinea fowl like there are different breeds of horses. Imagine if mules were fertile. How would you go about making sure your horse was pure horse, and not "just a touch" donkey?

Helmeted Guinea Fowl Numida meleagris

Vulturine Guinea Fowl Acryllium vulturinum


Domestic horse Equus ferus caballus

Domestic donkey Equus africanus asinus



P.S. I'm sorry about your guineas. I posted on that thread.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
Ah... but if they are fertile they are a crossbred rather then a hybrid. Typically a hybrid is a cross between two animals of the same genus but different species, like a Donkey and a horse to make a mule.

Been around horses too long.... sorry about the analogy....

The two types of guineas are different species, AND different genera. They are not different "breeds" of guinea fowl like there are different breeds of horses. Imagine if mules were fertile. How would you go about making sure your horse was pure horse, and not "just a touch" donkey?

Helmeted Guinea Fowl Numida meleagris

Vulturine Guinea Fowl Acryllium vulturinum


Domestic horse Equus ferus caballus

Domestic donkey Equus africanus asinus



P.S. I'm sorry about your guineas. I posted on that thread.

thanks.... its been an ordeal....

Rather than hijack this thread PM me and we can have a private discussion on Hybrid VS Crossbred... Still learning here and am up to a scientific discussion....

 

[Mahonri]

I learn something new on BYC everyday... WOW!

 

[spectrumranch]

perchie.girl :

Ah... but if they are fertile they are a crossbred rather then a hybrid. Typically a hybrid is a cross between two animals of the same genus but different species, like a Donkey and a horse to make a mule.

Been around horses too long.... sorry about the analogy....

I have raised animals for over 30 years, and growing up I was thought the same as you Perchie; in the ANIMAL world hybrids are sterile...............crossbreds are fertile.

I really can care less about someone using "breed" inplace of "species", I think simple and like simple so to me a Vulturine is a different breed than a helmeted guinea and domestic guineas are another breed (which comes in many color mutations).

From the research I have done & the experience I have raising animals, the hybrid Vulturines are sterile.

Maybe if everyone used the terms; Hybrid=sterile and Crossbred=fertile the animal world would have some distinction.

I have raised pure Vulturines for many years, but would never risk free ranging a group. Now I can have birds colored about the same; free ranging on the farm, they will be a beautiful addition!​

 

[AquaEyes]

Quote:
I have raised animals for over 30 years, and growing up I was thought the same as you Perchie; in the ANIMAL world hybrids are sterile...............crossbreds are fertile.

I really can care less about someone using "breed" inplace of "species", I think simple and like simple so to me a Vulturine is a different breed than a helmeted guinea and domestic guineas are another breed (which comes in many color mutations).

From the research I have done & the experience I have raising animals, the hybrid Vulturines are sterile.

Maybe if everyone used the terms; Hybrid=sterile and Crossbred=fertile the animal world would have some distinction.

I have raised pure Vulturines for many years, but would never risk free ranging a group. Now I can have birds colored about the same; free ranging on the farm, they will be a beautiful addition!

A "breed" is a man-made selection within one domesticated species based on characteristics desired. We have breeds of domesticated dogs, but all domesticated dogs are one species. The differences between breeds are due to human selective breeding. The relative genetic differences between different breeds is very small, compared to the relative genetic differences between different species.

A "species" is a population of organisms which reproduces amongst itself and produces offspring which resemble their parents. Species are found in nature, and differences between them are not due to human selective breeding. Sometimes different species can interbreed, and sometimes these hybrid offspring are fertile, but the hybrid offspring do not look like either parent -- rather an intermediate.




ETA -- glad to hear that they are sterile. They'd make an interesting addition to a domestic flock, but I was concerned about the possibility of them being fertile and being bred back to vulturines.

 

[perchie.girl]

Quote:
I have raised animals for over 30 years, and growing up I was thought the same as you Perchie; in the ANIMAL world hybrids are sterile...............crossbreds are fertile.

I really can care less about someone using "breed" inplace of "species", I think simple and like simple so to me a Vulturine is a different breed than a helmeted guinea and domestic guineas are another breed (which comes in many color mutations).

From the research I have done & the experience I have raising animals, the hybrid Vulturines are sterile.

Maybe if everyone used the terms; Hybrid=sterile and Crossbred=fertile the animal world would have some distinction.

I have raised pure Vulturines for many years, but would never risk free ranging a group. Now I can have birds colored about the same; free ranging on the farm, they will be a beautiful addition!

This is good to know because I WANT some.... hee hee. I cant though till I get my predator issues dealt with. I actually also want a pair of Vulturines eventually. Once I get my structures built I will have to search out a pair. Its going to take a year or two though.

 

[spectrumranch]

Quote:
Thanks for the technical definition, but I will still get emails and calls in the everyday world, where people call them "breeds" instead of "species"; just like I do.

 

[zzGypsy]

what kind weather tollerance is considered "cold hardy"?
the crosses are beautiful... don't know if they'd do well where I am. I'm in SW Missouri, we get occasional snows and some freezing, and 90+ with humidity in the summer. we do have a big out-of-the-wind barn for bad weather.
just wondering if you think they'd be cold hardy enough for my location...?

 

[spectrumranch]

Quote:
This is the first that we have raised any Vulturine hybrids, so we have not had a chance to test how they handle the winter.

I am assuming they will be able to handle below freezing temps without any supplemental heat if they have shelter from the wind and extreme elements.