Guys? Confusion? 🤔

[BlueTheBrahma]

what about blue and black-? Just got a dark blue look one from the pair this morning. And another dark looking one pipped from them.

Blue and black from two paints or partridge from a blue and black?

Either way is possible, 2 paints have a 25% chance of solid non white colour.

A blue and black could both carry partridge and have a 25% chance of producing partridge chicks.

 

[lilwanderer]

Blue and black from two paints or partridge from a blue and black?

Either way is possible, 2 paints have a 25% chance of solid non white colour.

A blue and black could both carry partridge and have a 25% chance of producing partridge chicks.

The paints- i wasn't sure it could happen, at least not blue

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

The paints- i wasn't sure it could happen, at least not blue

You can get blue paints, it’s simply the same deal as a normal one but blue rather than back based, but the white still interacts in the same way.

 

[lilwanderer]

Possible explanations:

--Recessive White chickens can show various colors in their down when they hatch.
Example, White Jersey Giants
https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/white_giants.html
If it grows completely white feathers, this is probably the correct explanation.

--Hens could have mated with another rooster before they were separated with this one, and the father of the chick is not the white rooster currently in the pen (depending on how long they have been separated from other roosters, the chance of this ranges from "very likely" to "almost impossible.")

--Dominant White rooster with recessive white hens, or vice versa, can produce some chicks that are not white (I think we've discussed that a few times already in this thread )

Hey, so the chicks have been feathering in really white- Could the silver gene be at play here? Or is just the Recessive white playing tricks? I'm still confused about the one with dark feet though.
This one is tiny compared to other two: (1)

(2)

Dark footed one: (3)

 

[NatJ]

Hey, so the chicks have been feathering in really white- Could the silver gene be at play here? Or is just the Recessive white playing tricks?

Silver turns gold/red shades into white (although it sometimes missed a bit.)

Recessive white turns EVERYTHING into white. It is less likely to leak colors than other forms of white.

So I think recessive white is most likely to be the one involved here. The chick certainly could have Silver as well, we just wouldn't be able to tell that if it's showing recessive white.

Yes, we could say recessive white is "playing tricks" if it allowed the chicks to have dark down, and then they grew white feathers.

I'm still confused about the one with dark feet though.

Recessive white can allow dark feet. As an example, White Silkies are often recessive white, but have dark feet.

Do any of the parents have dark feet? It is possible for a rooster to carry the gene for dark feet without showing it, and produce daughters with dark feet.

This one is tiny compared to other two: (1)

If the chick is smaller and also has a different color feet, it could just be a coincidence. Or it could be telling us something about the parents of that chick (not who we think they are, or carrying genes we didn't think they had.)

 

[lilwanderer]

Silver turns gold/red shades into white (although it sometimes missed a bit.)

Recessive white turns EVERYTHING into white. It is less likely to leak colors than other forms of white.

So I think recessive white is most likely to be the one involved here. The chick certainly could have Silver as well, we just wouldn't be able to tell that if it's showing recessive white.

Yes, we could say recessive white is "playing tricks" if it allowed the chicks to have dark down, and then they grew white feathers.


Recessive white can allow dark feet. As an example, White Silkies are often recessive white, but have dark feet.

Do any of the parents have dark feet? It is possible for a rooster to carry the gene for dark feet without showing it, and produce daughters with dark feet.


If the chick is smaller and also has a different color feet, it could just be a coincidence. Or it could be telling us something about the parents of that chick (not who we think they are, or carrying genes we didn't think they had.)

No dark feet on the parents- But the owner told me a hen just hatched a couple of her eggs from the pen, they're also silver/gray in color. I didn't ask if she got any with dark skin, I'll do that later on.
The reason I mentioned the silver gene was because when speaking with the lady I got my new breeder roo from- When she told me he has the silver gene and that it basically gives them a cleaner white look. These chicks feathers coming are the whitest white I've seen it feels like lol.

 

[NatJ]

The reason I mentioned the silver gene was because when speaking with the lady I got my new breeder roo from- When she told me he has the silver gene and that it basically gives them a cleaner white look. These chicks feathers coming are the whitest white I've seen it feels like lol.

OK, that makes sense. I could see that recessive white with silver could give a cleaner white than recessive white with gold. I know that when recessive white is not present, silver needs some other genes to give a clean-looking silver (that shows up when people cross gold x silver, and the "silver" offspring look a bit yellowish or dingy, rather than a nice clean white.) So there are definitely some cases where more than one gene are needed to make a really nice "white" color.

 

[lilwanderer]

OK, that makes sense. I could see that recessive white with silver could give a cleaner white than recessive white with gold. I know that when recessive white is not present, silver needs some other genes to give a clean-looking silver (that shows up when people cross gold x silver, and the "silver" offspring look a bit yellowish or dingy, rather than a nice clean white.) So there are definitely some cases where more than one gene are needed to make a really nice "white" color.

Maybe this is related to what you were saying- This is what I was thinking of when i said the silver gene, I didn't know the exact phrase until I saw something today about it with silkies.
Couldn't these guys be silver based white?

 

[NatJ]

Maybe this is related to what you were saying- This is what I was thinking of when i said the silver gene, I didn't know the exact phrase until I saw something today about it with silkies.
Couldn't these guys be silver based white?

Yes, that is a possibility.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Maybe this is related to what you were saying- This is what I was thinking of when i said the silver gene, I didn't know the exact phrase until I saw something today about it with silkies.
Couldn't these guys be silver based white?

Yes, I will list all the genotypes I can think of to produce a white phenoytype:

Recessive white:
c/c + anything else

Typical Dom white:
E/(any E locus), I/I

White Silver Birchen:
E^R/ E^R, I/I, S/S

White Silver Wheaten ???: E^Wh/E^Wh, I/I, S/S

White Silver Partridge:
e^b/ e^b, I/I, S/S
White Silver Duckwing:
e+/e+, I/I, S/S

Melanised White gold(en) birchen:
E^R/ E^R, I/I, s/(S or s), Ml/Ml And/Or cha/cha

White Silver Columbian

White Silver Pencilled

White Silver Laced

White Silver Double-laced

White Silver Spangled

White Silver transverse pencilled

Silver “Buff” ??? (As in Silver/light columbian with Db/Db)

Any of the above with mottling
Any of the above with barring (could also be ‘ghost barred’ rather than pure white)

Any of the above with any Black dilution (blue/splash, chocolate, lavender, etc)

Any version of the above with any recessive genes that do not affect phenotype when heterozygous change phenotype

(silver only appears white if no autosomal red is present)
??? = I can’t find/ have never seen an example but it would presumably be white.
This message is really just to show how many genotypes are responsible for one phenotype. Most pure bred show birds will be either of the first two options, but many mixed breeds or pure bred colours bred from other colours can have all sorts going on that only breeding reveals.