Hatch day - pip or pop?

[Pequena ave]

I will play sounds of baby chicks or momma quail talking when I remove the 1st chicks when it’s their time. You will see the eggs rocking or rolling to see who’s left. I keep playing it now and again to help them if they are late bloomers. Mommas here... come on I’m waiting for you.

 

[als77]

What about this one? Did it just do a large pip, and have been teasing me with its beak for two hours, or does it need assistance? (humidity has been very high)

I'm going to bed soon. Don't want to wake up to a DIS

First picture is the one in question
Second picture is one that just popped as comparison (of the color of the membrane)

 

[als77]

I will play sounds of baby chicks or momma quail talking when I remove the 1st chicks when it’s their time. You will see the eggs rocking or rolling to see who’s left. I keep playing it now and again to help them if they are late bloomers. Mommas here... come on I’m waiting for you.

Doesn't get much reaction with mine (not even from the one what zipped not long after)

 

[als77]

What about this one? Did it just do a large pip, and have been teasing me with its beak for two hours, or does it need assistance? (humidity has been very high)

I'm going to bed soon. Don't want to wake up to a DIS

First picture is the one in question
Second picture is one that just popped as comparison (of the color of the membrane)
View attachment 2532719View attachment 2532720

Here's the same egg 5 hours ago when I first noticed the pip. Membrane looks the same colour, so I guess I will NOT assist (it hasn't made any progress zip-wise, so it might not be ready)

 

[als77]

Here's the same egg 5 hours ago when I first noticed the pip. Membrane looks the same colour, so I guess I will NOT assist (it hasn't made any progress zip-wise, so it might not be ready)View attachment 2532783

No progress on this fellow during the night, but it is still alive. Another sibling hatched and is calling, which might have motivated him/her; it is pushing its beak towards the shell (but it did do that yesterday as well). Not sure if (s)he is struggling og just not really motivated to pip yet, because I can't see any progress.

Attached are two more pictures. Difficult to see, but in one (s)he is pushing the shell (only for it to fall back). Also difficult to tell, but not an ideal spot for the pip + it is pushing in a bad direction (i.e somewhat downwards, which will make the zip a very long one) = might need to assist at some point anyways

 

[als77]

I decided to intervene so I snatched the egg out. The bird then chirped non-stop at me. I pealed away the top, and it looked shrink-wrapped (ish - I'm a noob after all, didn't stop to take a picture...). I left it in the bottom half of its shell, and it pushed itself out. Some blood from the umbilical cord, but not a single drop of yolk.

Does the blood indicate that I shouldn't have assisted? (I didn't see any veins in the membrane)

 

[als77]

I decided to intervene so I snatched the egg out. The bird then chirped non-stop at me. I pealed away the top, and it looked shrink-wrapped (ish - I'm a noob after all, didn't stop to take a picture...). I left it in the bottom half of its shell, and it pushed itself out. Some blood from the umbilical cord, but not a single drop of yolk.

Does the blood indicate that I shouldn't have assisted? (I didn't see any veins in the membrane)

So far it seems ok. One of it siblings started to zip now and is progressing very fast. In my inexperienced head that translates to this not being a humidity issue (I don't think this was shrink wrap from low humidity since humidity has been a bit too high ever since the first one hatched).

One issue with my incubator is that the turner (the holding cups) is meant for chicken/goose, so the quail eggs fall on one side and then stay on that side forever (they do get tilted when the turner rotates). Can this be why 2 (so far) out of 18 (well, 9 hatched so far) 1) pips close to the midle of the egg and not the top, and 2) maybe struggle with zipping (or is this caused by 1?)?

 

[als77]

Sibling almost out - that one has spent less time zipping 360 degrees (sibling soccer...) than I spent on the assist + writing the previous post... I.e no humidity issues for that one at least (which lead me to believe that the one i assisted dried up because it was so long since the pip - I did see the beak several times yesterday).

 

[als77]

Had another 360-degree zipper (but towards the end of the egg, so a perfect spot for zipping), but he didn't make it

Seems like it failed to pip and went straight to zip (but only crushing the shell, not penetrating the membrane - I saw the cracking, but didn't realize it hadn't penetrated). After an hour or so the exposed membrane turned yellow, so I pinched two holes in it, but the chick was silent. I put it back since it might have been resting, but when I came back a few hours later there had been no progress. I removed the shell and the chick was dry (no blood, no yolk). I guess it suffocated in the shell from failing to pip

The weird thing is that humidity was rather high. I'm struggling with my bator temperature-wise, so RH fluctuates quite a lot inside the bator (from spot to spot that is). For lock-down I aimed for 60%, but had to settle for 62-69% (depending on the spot - other parts of the bator, where no eggs were, must have been dry because of insane temperature-variations inside the bator; 8C/14F to begin with, which I managed to get "down" to 4C/7F...).

Once hatching started the humidity went up a lot for some spots - while the temperature on those spots fell - and stayed up (which is why I allowed myself to snatch those two that needed assistance). Part of the eggs remained at 61-65%, but temperature jumping to 38.5-39.5C/101-103F (!). At the same time other eggs had 70-80% (!) (but temperature dropping to 36-36.5C/97-98F) *crapubator* This was on a very small area as well

When grabbing eggs RH didn't fall below 58% (for the lowest RH - other spots remained above 65% the whole time), and jumped straight back up (I mainly did this when another chick had hatched, and/or when RH had remained way too high).

This leads me to believe that humidity wasn't really the issue here, but temperature. Can that be correct? (too high temperature that is) Can it be that 39C/102F with 65% is actually "dry"?

I have five more eggs in the bator; no cracks/pips, no chirping (I tapped on the shells, but no reaction), but I'll leave them (we're still very early; day 18 starts in 10 min!). I don't have much hope for them though, but I'm still very happy with a 61% hatch-rate (11 (incl 2 assist) out of 18) for a first-time hatch with a horrible, horrible crapubator. If I had been more paranoid (or maybe sticked to not opening the bator???) I might have saved this one, giving 12/18.

The question is; What should I have done different? (besides using a better bator...) Need to learn from this till next time

 

[als77]

Had another 360-degree zipper (but towards the end of the egg, so a perfect spot for zipping), but he didn't make it

Seems like it failed to pip and went straight to zip (but only crushing the shell, not penetrating the membrane - I saw the cracking, but didn't realize it hadn't penetrated). After an hour or so the exposed membrane turned yellow, so I pinched two holes in it, but the chick was silent. I put it back since it might have been resting, but when I came back a few hours later there had been no progress. I removed the shell and the chick was dry (no blood, no yolk). I guess it suffocated in the shell from failing to pip

The weird thing is that humidity was rather high. I'm struggling with my bator temperature-wise, so RH fluctuates quite a lot inside the bator (from spot to spot that is). For lock-down I aimed for 60%, but had to settle for 62-69% (depending on the spot - other parts of the bator, where no eggs were, must have been dry because of insane temperature-variations inside the bator; 8C/14F to begin with, which I managed to get "down" to 4C/7F...).

Once hatching started the humidity went up a lot for some spots - while the temperature on those spots fell - and stayed up (which is why I allowed myself to snatch those two that needed assistance). Part of the eggs remained at 61-65%, but temperature jumping to 38.5-39.5C/101-103F (!). At the same time other eggs had 70-80% (!) (but temperature dropping to 36-36.5C/97-98F) *crapubator* This was on a very small area as well

When grabbing eggs RH didn't fall below 58% (for the lowest RH - other spots remained above 65% the whole time), and jumped straight back up (I mainly did this when another chick had hatched, and/or when RH had remained way too high).

This leads me to believe that humidity wasn't really the issue here, but temperature. Can that be correct? (too high temperature that is) Can it be that 39C/102F with 65% is actually "dry"?

I have five more eggs in the bator; no cracks/pips, no chirping (I tapped on the shells, but no reaction), but I'll leave them (we're still very early; day 18 starts in 10 min!). I don't have much hope for them though, but I'm still very happy with a 61% hatch-rate (11 (incl 2 assist) out of 18) for a first-time hatch with a horrible, horrible crapubator. If I had been more paranoid (or maybe sticked to not opening the bator???) I might have saved this one, giving 12/18.

The question is; What should I have done different? (besides using a better bator...) Need to learn from this till next time

I might actually have had a much lower humidity than I thought
Since humidity reading were high and I had no pips/cracks I opened the lid and tried to rearrange the liner, trying to improve airflow. That worked - not only is the temperature difference reduced, but I got condensation on the lid (and hygrometers reading 80%).

My hygrometers are resting on top of the liner (I had them upright at some point, but sibling soccer doesn't allow for them to remain standing...), so I guess they were reading humidity of the liner and not necessarily above. So when the hygrometers read 60-75% the actual humidity above the liner might be way lower (the hygrometer of the incubator is also below the liner).

I haven't added any water since removing the chicks, but now humidity stays as 80% and fogging occurs. I try to vent by opening the lid somewhat, which drops humidity down, but as soon as I close the lid condensation appears and the hygrometers read 80%.

I.e a larger mashed liner could have saved some lives A bit confused because I have gotten recommendations to use paper towels on the floor, and my liner lets way more air through than paper towels (but I guess those recommendations didn't consider a more or less blockage of air flow). Need to find a better solution if I use this bator for lock-down again. At least I didn't have any injuries from chicks falling through the mesh in the floor