Hatch Day Woes

[Bates]

Hello to the BYC Community!

This is my first time hatching eggs and as per a previous thread, I am using the P&I PI12 incubator.

Initially I set 12 shipped chicken eggs in the incubator and during my first candling session removed four eggs, which were mostly blood rings. I removed a further three eggs - early quitter and more apparent blood rings - and by day 18, I was left with seven viable eggs. Despite this loss - which I assume is more common with shipped eggs - I was feeling optimistic going in to lock down, with the pleasure of wobbles/wiggles/rocking from a couple of eggs on day 19.

I've been reading quite a lot over the forums and panicked when I thought that my humidity may be to high and that my chicks may drown (my reading was 80-90%). As I am in lockdown I referred back to the forums, with mixed opinions on opening the incubator during this time - it's an absolute no-no or it's okay if you do it briefly. After some deliberating I briefly opened the incubator to reduce the amount of water and lower the humidity so it now reads between 60-70%. I feel this is a much more appropriate humidity level, however I am now on day 21 and there are no signs of the wobbles/wiggles/rocking I previously experienced. I haven't seen any signs of pipping either and I'm really worried that I have jeopardised the hatch.

It's still early in the day so I hope that the chicks are resting and that I will see signs of pipping soon. I know that sometimes eggs hatch later than day 21, but I have this heavy and miserable feeling that I've blown it.

Any thoughts or advise would be welcome.

 

[blucoondawg]

You won't drown your chicks with lockdown humidity, drowning occurs when you have too much humidity during the first 18 days which in turn doesn't allow the air cell to grow large enough and the chick drowns when it pips internally because of having too much fluid remaining in the egg.

 

[Bates]

So really I should've left it?

I feel sick just thinking that making the adjustment during lockdown has killed my chicks, when they looked so promising with their wobbles on day 19. Although like you say it could route back to earlier in the incubation process.

I tried to maintain the humidity at 55% before lockdown, however it was quite changeable throughout the process with 10% either way - I really should've kept a written record to refer back to. It's been a real learning curve with adding the water, as a few drops can really bump up the humidity, but I feel better adjusted with that aspect. The temperature in the incubator has been steady throughout at 37.5C, however our climate in Scotland is very changeable so perhaps this could influence humidity too?

I'll keep my fingers crossed and try to hold out over the next few days. I'm so just anxious and really want them to pull through.

 

[HickoryHollow]

So really I should've left it?

I feel sick just thinking that making the adjustment during lockdown has killed my chicks, when they looked so promising with their wobbles on day 19. Although like you say it could route back to earlier in the incubation process.

I tried to maintain the humidity at 55% before lockdown, however it was quite changeable throughout the process with 10% either way - I really should've kept a written record to refer back to. It's been a real learning curve with adding the water, as a few drops can really bump up the humidity, but I feel better adjusted with that aspect. The temperature in the incubator has been steady throughout at 37.5C, however our climate in Scotland is very changeable so perhaps this could influence humidity too?

I'll keep my fingers crossed and try to hold out over the next few days. I'm so just anxious and really want them to pull through.

If your humidity was that high, and there are no pips, I think you did the right thing. Opening is only a huge no-no after pipping, or if you are having trouble getting humidity high enough. If you don't get a good hatch, I think the problem lies elsewhere.

 

[blucoondawg]

I'm not saying you should have left it I'm saying it wouldn't have drowned your chicks, by day 18 the damage is already done if you had too high of levels, lowering it like you did is OK it was a little higher than is required for lockdown. You had no pips and your still up to 70ish anyways which is fine for lockdown.

The thing is high humidity is not going to put moisture back into your eggs, so if your eggs are on schedule then your lockdown humidity goes sky high it isn't going to fill your eggs with water and drown them, all high humidity is going to do is slow down or prevent your eggs from losing further moisture.

My last lockdown the humidity got very high as well. I filled the available water wells which brought it up to almost 80 then the chicks hatched and it was darn near 100% i couldnt see in the fogged up windows it was so wet but my hatch still went OK, I would prefer to keep it at a max of maybe 80 but it can be hard to keep it down with a hatch going.

Once your hatch is finished i would put each remaining egg in a sandwich bag and break it open and check the development of the dead chicks, if your chicks are large and full developed it would likely indicate that your humidity was too high during the first 18 days, to me 55% is too high, i run dry hatches 20 to 30%, my air cells develop decent that way and in reality it could stand to be a little lower yet. If your humidity was swinging 10% up or down that means it could have been at 65% sometimes which is way high for incubation. Did you monitor your air cell size during the first 18 days when candling?

Keep us posted with your results i like to know what others experiences are in relation to humidity levels.

 

[Bates]

If your humidity was that high, and there are no pips, I think you did the right thing. Opening is only a huge no-no after pipping, or if you are having trouble getting humidity high enough. If you don't get a good hatch, I think the problem lies elsewhere.

Thank you for the reassurance. Fingers crossed things turn around for the best but I won't get my hopes too high. I'll be able to review it in a couple of days following an eggtopsy if needed.

 

[Bates]

I'm not saying you should have left it I'm saying it wouldn't have drowned your chicks, by day 18 the damage is already done if you had too high of levels, lowering it like you did is OK it was a little higher than is required for lockdown. You had no pips and your still up to 70ish anyways which is fine for lockdown.

The thing is high humidity is not going to put moisture back into your eggs, so if your eggs are on schedule then your lockdown humidity goes sky high it isn't going to fill your eggs with water and drown them, all high humidity is going to do is slow down or prevent your eggs from losing further moisture.

My last lockdown the humidity got very high as well. I filled the available water wells which brought it up to almost 80 then the chicks hatched and it was darn near 100% i couldnt see in the fogged up windows it was so wet but my hatch still went OK, I would prefer to keep it at a max of maybe 80 but it can be hard to keep it down with a hatch going.

Once your hatch is finished i would put each remaining egg in a sandwich bag and break it open and check the development of the dead chicks, if your chicks are large and full developed it would likely indicate that your humidity was too high during the first 18 days, to me 55% is too high, i run dry hatches 20 to 30%, my air cells develop decent that way and in reality it could stand to be a little lower yet. If your humidity was swinging 10% up or down that means it could have been at 65% sometimes which is way high for incubation. Did you monitor your air cell size during the first 18 days when candling?

Keep us posted with your results i like to know what others experiences are in relation to humidity levels.

If there has been a problem I imagine it would lie with the humidity. I bought a cheap digital thermometer/hygrometer and two analogue hygrometers to keep track of the humidity, however the readings between the analogue and digital hygrometers are very different. This made it quite confusing and I tried to work it out between the two - I'll have to calibrate the hygrometers for future and make sure I don't add too much water. This was another issue as I hadn't realised what a difference a couple of drops make!

Thanks for your clarification on the humidity - I didn't think it would instantly fill with moisture, however I knew having it at a high reading would not benefit the chicks if they already had highish humidity throughout. This is probably where the irreversable damage has occured, although I naively thought everything was progressing well. I was reassured by the wobbling eggs on day 19, but I suppose this may have been before they internally pipped?

I plan on doing an eggtopsy as suggested, but how soon do you think would be suitable? Today is only day 21 so I was thinking I should give them until the end of day 25.

I did monitor the air cell sizes and they appeared to grow throughout the process. There was some saddling which I think must've occured from shipment but I don't believe this would affect the eggs. I didn't weigh the eggs or make a written record so I can't reflect on this information.

I'll keep the thread posted and fingers crossed - perhaps eggtopsy photos to follow.

Thank you very much for your informative post.

 

[blucoondawg]

Yes I would wait until day 24 or 25, you may still have some hatch. If you read the hatching 101 article on this site it has a very good explanation of humidity and how it relates to incubating. It also has a drawing to use as a reference for how large your air cell should grow. Basically it should account for around one third of the egg by day 18 , give or take a little of course. If your humidity is too low the air cell will get large like half the egg or more, that is when shrink wrapping happens.

 

[Bates]

Thank you very much! I have seen the Hatching 101 article before but didn't really absorb the information - there is so much to take in! I'll be sure to refer back to it for my next batch though.

** UPDATE **

On a positive note, I briefly popped in to the incubator this morning to again adjust the humidity - it had dropped quite low, possibly due to the sudden warmer weather? - and I got carried away with the water again, so had to remove some of the excess. It was also a good opportunity to quickly inspect the eggs (which hadn't yet pipped) and I was delighted when one of the eggs started wobbling and chirping. I put them back in to the incubator and I've checked them again just now to find an external pip! I think this is from the same egg that chirped so I'm not sure how the other chicks are holding up - although I'm sure I saw another wobble or two. This is very promising at least and I'll try not to get too excited until they're out and safe.

I'm starting to wonder whether the temperature may have been too low in the incubator. I set the temperature at 37.5C as per the instruction manual with the incubator - I know we shouldn't always depend on the instructions! - but I'm sure I had read it elsewhere online and made the selection on this basis. Perhaps it should've been 38C as this is closer to the approximate body temperature of a chicken as they may be hatching late due to being a slightly lower than this temperature.

I'll keep the thread updated - I'll be extremely pleased if I can hatch at least one chick and learn from this experience.

 

[Bates]

A beautiful and very vocal chick has hatched as of 20:40pm GMT - so pleased! Hopefully there will be more to follow.