hatching eggs

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BlacksheepCardigans said:
I own very nicely bred Lavender Ameraucanas. I don't show them and don't ever intend to show them. They are intended for nothing more than a backyard flock. Are they EEs?

Consistency in type is pretty much the ONLY condition for calling a chicken purebred. There's no such thing as registration, very few keep pedigrees, and you can create purebreds by mixing other breeds together (a great example is the new project color Brahmas, which typically start out with three or four non-Brahma breeds and only get a Brahma infusion in the last few generations). As soon as it's consistent in type and producing consistently, it's purebred. 

By all qualifications but plumage color, the birds advertised here check every "purebred" box. That's why I said it was wrong to insist that she call them mixes. She could call them non-standard colors or project colors or she could make up a name for them as so many have done in the past. But they're no more mixes than my Serama (no color standard) are, or than my Lavender Ameraucanas with gold leakage are.
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•Never said that only show people can call them ameraucana, but that the variety is not considered an Easter Egger.
•consistency in type is really not the ONLY thing to determine pure breeding
•don't know where the registration thing you came up with is from, unless your referring to
cubakid said:
recognition
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which is typed in clear English.
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BlacksheepCardigans said:
As soon as it's consistent in type and producing consistently, it's purebred. 
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type comes from descriptions in the Standard of Perfection, which is what they would have to breed to to get the type!
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BlacksheepCardigans said:
By all qualifications but plumage color, the birds advertised here check every "purebred" box.
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"purebred" missing the key parts here.
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BlacksheepCardigans said:
She could call them non-standard colors or project colors or she could make up a name for them as so many have done in the past.
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Wouldn't have to make up anything if it is a Standard bred Ameraucana as you insist.

Selling them as Ameraucana makes the people think they are ameraucana, then they breed and sell them as ameraucana. This hurts true ameraucana breeders as people mix true and false advertised birds and mess up show lines. It's disheartening to tell people that what they were sold as ameraucana, are not ameraucana.
 
In other species, you know an animal is purebred because it's registered. The registration, which is given by a parent club or national club, certifies a pedigree and gives everybody's promise that there is nothing in many generations except that breed.

In chickens, it doesn't matter what's in the pedigree. The ONLY thing that makes a chicken purebred is that it looks like a breed and produces chicks that will look like that breed. So you can assemble a flock of purebred Delawares without using a single Delaware, or assemble a flock of purebred Rocks without using a single Rock.

Because that's true, the original poster here has "purebred" chickens. They are consistent in type, in egg color, in size, and so on. They are not Easter Eggers, which is a term made up specifically to describe the way you can have an infusion of blue-egg/pea-comb/muff and beard genes in a flock of layers and end up with blue, green, pink, and brown layers with a huge variety of combs, feathering, and type and no expectation of consistency.

If someone came on the hatching egg thread and advertised mixed-color or project color cochins, as long as they were round birds with heavily feathered feet and cushions, nobody would tell her that she didn't have cochins and was deceiving people by saying she had cochins. People can sell mixed-color Marans all day long and nobody tells you that what you're selling isn't a Marans (as long as they have the body style and the dark egg). Flame Jaerhons, splash *anything,* chocolate wyandottes, and dozens more are sold and advertised and accepted as purebred even though they're not a color accepted by a SOP.

It's unfair to hold people with Ameraucanas to a completely different expectation. She's NOT selling Easter Egger eggs. She's selling eggs from chickens that are Ameraucana in body type and egg color and obviously extremely consistent. The only thing you're objecting to is the plumage color. If that doesn't remove the breed label in any other breed, it's silly to expect it to remove the breed label in this one.

She provided ample pictures. Nobody is being deceived by her posting. She didn't call them show quality or call them a standard color or promise people that they could win with them. If someone wants to correct her and say "You should make it clear that they are mixed color and do not meet the SOP for color," that would be totally appropriate. But she should not be asked to call her birds mixes when they are not mixes.
 
Dear Blacksheep,

I typically don't get involved in debates on this forum but in this case I feel it is important to weigh in here. First and foremost, I think Amalias birds are beautiful. I might even buy some eggs if I could be certain I would get what was in the pictures she took down ( the mille fleurs... they were amazing). That being said, you make some pretty grand assumptions in your rebuttal to some of the comments written here:

"Because that's true, the original poster here has "purebred" chickens. They are consistent in type, in egg color, in size, and so on."

How do you know that they will breed true to type, color, size, egg color etc.? I read through all the posts and couldn't find a single reference by the seller that these birds will breed true. We don't know if they are F1, F2 etc... Furthermore, as someone who was greatly misled by uninformed sellers when I first started out - in this breed and others - I think it is imperative to make sure that what people are advertising is true - plain and simple. I've wasted 2 years wading through all the BS people have sold to me as purebreds to get a few starter birds for my flock.

You also say:

"It's unfair to hold people with Ameraucanas to a completely different expectation. She's NOT selling Easter Egger eggs. She's selling eggs from chickens that are Ameraucana in body type and egg color and obviously extremely consistent. The only thing you're objecting to is the plumage color. If that doesn't remove the breed label in any other breed, it's silly to expect it to remove the breed label in this one."

Again you are making the major assumption that these birds will breed true - based on looking at a few pictures.... really? And I don't think it is any different with other breeds... I am guessing that most people who are planning to work with a breed want to be reasonably sure that the birds they are buying aren't hiding all kinds of problems just below the surface. It is extremely disappointing (and often very costly) to have to start over from scratch once you realize the birds you thought you had...weren't. Be careful, a picture doesn't come close to telling the true story - it's just a depiction of that generation of birds.

While I don't think there is a difference of expectations between different breeds, Ameraucana breeders have had to deal with so much confusion around their breed it is only natural that they are hyper-vigilant regarding standards. No other breed that I know of has to defend itself against the level of misinformation perpetuated by sellers out there. Whether it is done by uninformed individuals or unscrupulous pros, there is a constant stream of ads out there selling EE as Ameraucanas to unsuspecting people.

Anyway, the birds in this ad are beautiful and while it is possible that they could qualify as "project" birds they are certainly not standard Ameraucanas and in my opinion should not be labeled as such.
 
The seller also did not mention them as project birds, and truly thought they were Ameraucanas. Obviously it wasn't a project. There are too splash birds in the standard.
Just because the birds have slate legs blue eggs pea comb and beard doesn't mean they are not Easter eggers. Remember that they come in a variety of variations, and we don't know what the parents or children look like of these birds, so how can you argue that they produce consistent type. They also have a square back, which is not breed type.
 
Wow, it is a lot of comments!
To me it is not important, as you wish to name them. I am breed them about 7 years and never mix with somebody. If they looking not right for you it is OK. For me they wonderful and I continue to work above it. It is result of my selection. I like a bird more largly and more strong. So, their children the same. They are excellent laying big blue eggs, look nice,chicks grow very well and extra-roosters make tasty soop)))
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