Heat and light source for small coop? And other stuff...

[suburbanchick]

Llysse, here's a pic showing the two roosts. It's still hard to get perspective, but one is staggered about 10" behind the other, and up about 5". Also, when it gets outside hopefully tomorrow, the big waterer will be in the run.

I feel like a whiny kid that wants to do what she wants to do regardless, and in a way that is the case.

But if this is the consensus, I will not try to keep all 4 in this coop if it won't be good for them. I can easily find another home for one of them... although I will be sad.

 

[Wes in Tx]

Now I am going to throw some European thinking in here just to offer another line of thinking than that of us "yankees." You have plenty of room for those birds as long as all the do is roost and lay eggs in there. In most European articles concerning coop size they recommend between 1.5 and 2 square meters per bird for laying and roosting. By the time next winter gets here you wont need anytype of light in the coop for heat. IMHO unless it is getting down to 0° or lower I wouldn't worry about extra heat. Those girls will prodive all the heat they need in that size coop.

I personally think you will be just fine keeping all 4 birds.

 

[Llysse]

Another roost--that's cool. The top birds in the pecking order will get the highest one.

What can happen when they start to get crowded is they may start pecking and egg eating and so forth... the coop will be harder to keep clean (of course, with more birds in it) and they may be more prone to pest problems like mites

If you have someone that could take them if you start having problems, you could always try keeping them until they start exhibiting those behaviors. With a large run and outdoor access, they may be perfectly happy and never do so, you never know. The advicde is all about the recommendations that usually enable you to avoid the problems without guesswork. Once the picking starts, you can have problems for a while until everything settles down and your girls heal up because they like to continue pecking at a wounded bird, and it can be hard to give away a wounded girl. Pest problems are always a pain in the neck, of course. But egg eating is very difficult to stop once it starts.

What you say about battery hens is true... they do live in much worse conditions, usually in a space about the size of a sheet of notebook paper. However they're also prone to pecking and being pecked, and if you've ever seen one you know most of them don't have many feathers at all unless they're brand new to the cages. Even in your smaller-than-recommended set-up, I don't think you should compare yourself to a battery cager, silly.

With the roosting space taken care of--that would have been a REAL issue--you may just want to watch and wait for a while. See if they show any signs of distress, fighting or feather pulling. See how difficult it is to keep the air in the coop sweet for the birds, and the shavings clean... in short, see if they start having problems.

I do think your coop is adorable. I just made a little 4 x 4 myself that I'd love to stuff with 25 birds.

Alas, I'm only going to have four in it, though.

 

[suburbanchick]

Thanks Wes, and Llysse... although all advice is welcome here, I always like the good news.

I guess what I'll do is just wait it out and see what happens, and give one to Pops if it doesn't work out. I have a sinking feeling that my favorite hen, Henrietta, is really Henry, and if that's the case my problem will be taken care of automatically.

Although Pops may want to keep him around since he wants a couple of roos.

Take care, and happy Easter!

 

[Llysse]

In most European articles concerning coop size they recommend between 1.5 and 2 square meters per bird for laying and roosting.

I think one and a half meters per bird works out to between 4 and 5 square feet per bird, if I'm not mistaken. I believe the Europeans are actually more liberal than we are when it comes to treating their livestock well. I could be reading this wrong, though. (Believe me, it wouldn't be the first time, LOL!)

 

[allen wranch]

If you go with Wes' recommendation, you need to do some adjustment on the coop for the summer heat. I didn't see any windows for ventilation, and those girls will cook in there on a summer night without some air circulation.

 

[Wes in Tx]

Llysee your right on the numbers and that was a poor example I used. Here is a quote off of a European site that sells poultry houses. You can see by this they crame alot of birds in a small space.

"major" - 6' x 44" house suitable for 15-20 hens

Even if you rounded it up to 48" your still talking about only giving 1.2 to 1.6 sqft per bird.

"minor" - 3' 6" x 44" house suitable for 10-15 hens

From another site.

This chicken or duck house will take up to 6 medium sized birds; Ideal for home egg production and is especially suitable for ducks as it does not have a ramp (for ducks you don't need a nestbox):
Size: 33 by 35 inches;
Height at front : 30 inches, Height at rear 24 inches

Basically a 9 sqft house for 6 birds say the size of a leghorn.

They do this because they actually have less space to keep animals in then we do.

Without a doubt as Carla said more ventilation will be needed in the summer.

I would also make one big change--I would take that tin roof off and go find some Onduline which is an asphalt type roofing that looks like tin or would go with a wood roof with shingles.​

 

[suburbanchick]

Quote:
That's true. We'll be thinking of a way to do that.

Thanks!

 

[MarkR]

Here's a real addicts thought, keep your coop, and then build a second larger one. That way you can get even more chickens!

Mark

 

[Llysse]

Wes, Onduline/Ondura is what I used. I like it a lot. Very easy to install, and I think it has the added benefit (for livestock) of not being so loud in the rain. However, I love the tin roof on my house, and would be pretty sad to have it muffled my the Ondura, LOL.

Are you talking about the Forsham coops? I do love those. But I tend to distrust any company's marketing website as a real objective recommendation. After all, McMurray's recommend's the Chick-n-Hutch for four birds, and it's got a wire floor and is not even enclosed.

Here's a place in the US that sells the same products as what (I think!) you're talking about: http://www.backyardfarming.com/prod_lenham.html . They're saying 25 hens in a 4 x 4 coop. It's just marketing-speak (probably not euro-speak), and they're basing it on the number of nest boxes and roosting space they have in the unit... not on the amount of space per bird.

I personally think these are extremely well designed units. (I wish they weren't so expensive), but ample space for the birds just happens to be a pet peeve of mine. I wouldn't put 25 birds in a 4 x 4 unit. I'd put 4, maybe 5. I've seen so many studies on rats and all sorts of animals that once you pass a certain threshold, they just get aggressive and fight. (Of course, it also may have to do with the fact that I need a lot of space myself. We moved WAY out, and live about two miles from a maintained road

)

I don't think 4 sq feet is an absolute, hard and fast rule, but I do think it's a good rule of thumb. I think Joel Salatin even recommends 5. As I said above, if there's access to a good run, and the birds aren't confined for long periods during the winter, you can do with less. But this is all just my opinion.

However, I don't think it hurts to be aware of the potential problems so you can know what actions to consider of something does come up.

What if you do get a 4 x 4 coop and put 25 birds into it, and it's always filled with an ammonia smell, your birds are plagued with respiratory problems, you spend 5 hours of your weekend scraping and cleaning the stinky coop, the eggs are dirty at the end of the week, often broken and eaten, and to top every thing off, they get leg mites and start pulling out each other's feathers? It would be easy to see all those things as separate problems. But if they all have one underlying cause, knowing that it may be overcrowding can help you to be aware of it so you don't just give up on chickens altogether as messy, stinky, mean, infested, unpleasant creatures, when if they're in more of a natural environment for them we all know they can be friendly, funny, heartwarming, individual (and sometimes maddening, of course) personable and easy pets.

Which is not to say, Shandea, that you will experience any of this grief since you have a nice run.

I just find that I harp like an old man on this point so much that maybe I should explain at least once why I do it, LOL.