Help and advice please

[DLA]

That's a tough situation. Where I live does have noise ordinance also but it has an exemption for normal and necessary activity in farming and animal husbandry because this is pretty rural and still a good number of farms around. Unless she's not feeding, caring or cleaning up after them you'd have no recourse as far as reporting her for neglect. Having a bad hen to rooster ratio probably wouldn't qualify. You have my sympathies.

 

[EuroChook]

Is your municipality one in which keepers of chickens must have a permit?

"Chester County Municipalities with Backyard Chicken Keeping Regulations. As of March 2019, approximately eight Chester County municipalities have zoning ordinance regulations related to the keeping of backyard chickens. Most require permits." As far as I can discern there are also regulations limiting how many chickens are kept and so forth:

https://www.chescoplanning.org/MuniCorner/eTools/04-BackyardChickens.cfm

 

[glocke12]

What are your zoning laws regarding how close chicken structures can be to human dwellings? Sounds like her chicken pen is too close to your house. You can start there. If there's nothing specific about chicken coops/pens, look up animal shelters in general - barns, corrals, pens, etc. and the setback requirements for those. You may have a case there. Also look up general domestic disturbance regulations - there's usually some kind of something in place for daylight hours, so you don't have to wait until 11pm for the nighttime noise ordinance to kick in.

And last but not least. Sounds like the neighbor's chickens wander onto your property (which in itself is another problem...) How about any chicken that makes it onto your property becomes your dinner. As far as the neighbor is concerned, the chicken may have gotten lost in the woods just as well, or been eaten by one of those foxes you've been trapping. Stop trapping foxes, maybe even leave food out near the property line to draw them in and let them do their job. That would draw the chickens in, too, make them easier to catch. Unreasonable neighbors don't deserve reasonable treatment.

I've been through the zoning laws with the zoning officer. Gist of it is there is nothing there that can help me. They are vague, and presumably written assuming people would be responsible with the raising/keeping of fowl and livestock.

I'm going before the board of supervisors to encourage them to amend the ordinances so they are empowered to address situations like mine by adding specific language about keeping an acceptable rooster to hen ratio, adding in language to address nuisance animals, and also something that addresses soundproofing. I don't expect much to happen but it will be a start at least.

I won't comment publicly on wandering chickens or coyotes and foxes.

It is a truly unfortunate situation and it is bird owners/livestock owners like this that ruin it for everyone else. At times I feel like a complete " Karen " about this but it's gotten to the point where it's a true quality of life issue.

I'm not the most quiet person in this neighborhood, but as a property owner I can't imagine generating that amount of noise on a daily basis all day long. I'd feel bad and would do something about it.

 

[Ocho 8 Farm]

Maybe you can reach out to some of the other neighbors. I wonder if anyone else is irritated by the noise. Maybe if a bunch of the neighbors confronted this person she would realize it’s not just you and maybe she would do something about it. Sorry you’re dealing with this.

 

[Jenbirdee]

sometimes there are state laws when there is no local law.
I have neighbors with extremely I mean ridiculously loud cars and motorcycles that wake me up at 4:30 am and on and off during the day and they blame me for being too sensitive when I tell them its hurting us (m 83 yr old Mom is suffering of it) Had to move all my coops and runs to other side of my yard where theres no natural shade too. (spent alot on artificial shade) but anyway thats my problem We are trying to help you with yours....
I was told to contact the county commissioner.
Have not done it yet though because it seems they are running their engines less than they used to after I mentioned the state laws to them.

 

[NatJ]

I believe the main reason for these incessant vocalizations is the fact that she has 4 or 5 roosters (she doesn't even know) and only 5-6 hens. My research on this site tells me the correct ratio should be 1 rooster per ten hens.

The ratio of 1 rooster to 10 hens is not relevant here.

That ratio is correct for commercial breeders with hundreds and thousands of hens & roosters. Roosters eat feed but do not lay eggs, so those breeders want to keep the fewest possible roosters while still having all the eggs be fertile. 1 rooster for 10 hens is about right for some breeds, while others need more roosters (as high as 1 rooster per 5 or 6 hens) and others can get by with less (1 rooster for 12 to 15 hens.) But since your neighbor is not trying for maximum fertile eggs per rooster fed, the commercial ratio does not matter.

People breeding chickens on a smaller scale (like for shows) will sometimes keep equal numbers of roosters and hens, or a ratio of one rooster to two hens, or various other numbers. It depends on the breed, the individual chickens, and the owner's goals.

For people keeping chickens as pets, who do not care if the eggs are fertile or not, ANY ratio can work as long as the individual chickens are not causing issues for each other (like roosters injuring each other in fights, or roosters injuring hens by over-mating.)

Some people even keep flocks of just roosters (sometimes called a "bachelor flock.") That can work fine too.

Some people raise roosters for specific purposes (like feathers for flytying and other crafts), but of course raising roosters for that has nothing to do with any rooster/hen ratio.

None of those has anything to do with the amount of noise the roosters will or will not make, just like none of them has anything to do with what chickens would "naturally" do in the wild, or what would make any specific chicken "happy."

As regards your neighbor's chickens, if she kept the males & females in separate pens, that would guarantee no overmating of the hens, but would probably not do anything to fix the noise.

Personally, I do not think that more hens would make your neighbor's roosters any quieter, but of course I could be wrong about that.

I'm going before the board of supervisors to encourage them to amend the ordinances so they are empowered to address situations like mine by adding specific language about keeping an acceptable rooster to hen ratio, adding in language to address nuisance animals, and also something that addresses soundproofing. I don't expect much to happen but it will be a start at least.

No matter what rooster to hen ratio you choose, someone will be able to provide good evidence of times when it is wrong for one purpose or another. So I suggest you make sure you have good points to support whatever number you suggest.

I suspect it would work better to have a limit on roosters-per-acre, or some kind of total noise limit, rather than trying for a rule about rooster/hen ratios.

 

[NatJ]

Roosters who see each other as competition do crow more though, as crowing is also an expression of dominance or a challenge. So one single rooster with his own flock of hens won’t crow as much as several roosters competing with each other for insufficient hens. So the ratio does matter in the context of the noise.

So for the same number of roosters, adding more hens really will reduce the noise? I had assumed they would all compete anyway.

 

[EuroChook]

Im in Bucks County sadly. The case I referenced was Chester County which is in PA also which tells me there is legal precedence for the courts being on my side of this with regards to it being a private nuisance should it come to that.

There would have to be something, one would suspect, in a civilized country. Im very sorry for your situation. I moved to this place with no indications of renovations hsppening next door... and since they are cheap, they are using the slave labor of friends and family. So sporadically, whenever those are available, there is hammering and electric saws and junk.... all day long... I like peace. I like quiet. And its been going on for 6 weeks on and off... so I definitely sympathize. Meanwhile, old landlord is trying to keep all my security deposit.

So yes.... people just want to do whatever and whenever... I really sympathize.

 

[aart]

or would they object to the very presence of other roosters, period?

More than likely, yes.

 

[DLA]

Ok thanks thats good information and I appreciate it. I didn't realize that the 1:10 ratio only applied to commercial breeders as the websites I got that information from didn't specify that. I had thought that was just a ratio that existed out of long established animal husbandry practices of keeping chickens and roosters no matter what the reason for keeping the birds was.

I'll omit that part when I go in front of the BoS and just address it from the standpoint of it being a private nuisance as below "

1. A Township Ordinance provides that it shall be unlawful within
   the Township for any person or persons to own, possess, harbor or control any animal or bird which makes noise continuously and/or incessantly to the disturbance of any person for a period of 15 minutes or more between the hours of 8:00 a.m. through 10:00 p.m. or for a period of 10 minutes or more between the hours of 10:00 p.m. through 8:00 a.m. or makes such noise intermittently for 1/2 hour or more any time of the day or night, regardless of whether the animal or bird is physically situated in or upon private property, said noise being a nuisance, provided that at the time the animal or bird is making such noise, no person is trespassing or threatening to trespass upon private property in or upon which the animal or bird is situated. "

Based on other replies in this thread, is it safe to say that having multiple roosters can lead to frequent vocalizations as they are trying to establish dominance over one another for whatever number of hens there are ?

As far as getting other neighbors on board with this, I know the people on the opposite side of me don't want to hear these birds as they have commented on it but they just moved in and don't want to get involved, other neighbors have issues with this woman for one reason or another that range from her horses and birds wandering onto their property, to her pulling out survey stakes placed by a licensed surveyor when someone bought a neighboring property and had his land surveyed to be certain of the the property lines. She disagreed with the survey and pulled the stakes out. Those other neighbors don't want to get involved as they are afraid of retribution from her (they have kids, animals of their own, etc..)

It's just an awful situation. As I said earlier, I've been trying to get used to it for two years and cannot, and this summer I've been home on medical leave for back surgery and was laying there recovering after getting home from the hospital listening to all of this and just couldn't deal with it any longer and thats when I nicely asked her to address the situation somehow. I offered to pay for baffling on the pen to keep the noise down, I offered to buy no-crow collars, etc...and was basically told to pound sand and she and her boyfriend went onto imply my complaints were due to my health status. Fortunately I've got texts and email to friends and relatives that document my complaints for almost two years.

I was hoping to retire here in 2-3 years but I can't imagine retiring here and dealing with that noise, and if I were to try to sell this property I can't imagine anyone in their right mind buying it after hearing that racket next door.

It makes me really sad that people have to act like your neighbors. It is an awful situation. I hope you're able to find a solution.