HELP!! Day 20/21 egg found leaking, possible pip hole at wrong end

[kittydoc]

Bear with me--this is my first incubation. I have used a Brinsea auto-turning (set it and forget it, to the extent possible) incubator. Down to just one live egg, and now that's in question. Everything fine on Day 19--stopped turning, upped the humidity, put in paper towel and covered the water well.

This morning (Day 20, but Day 21 happens in an hour or two), there was a thin yolk-like sticky substance spread out under the egg, and the shell was stuck to it. There is a small bit of shell chipped off the egg, but it appears to me that there is at least one membrane intact over the opening. Not sure if the chick pipped it, or if I chipped it off when I gently removed the messy egg to examine and clean it (just wiped off the excess goo with warm water, then put it back in the incubator on clean paper towels).

This "pip" hole is near the wrong end. The air sac at the correct end is nice and big.

(1) Any chance this chick is still alive?

(2) If so, is there anything I can do to help it?

I am just sick about this. I'm actually a small animal veterinarian who learned zero about poultry medicine in school (well, only production medicine--not backyard flocks). About half of the eggs I received via USPS were fertile but all but this one died.

Please, any suggestions greatly appreciated. Very frustrating and sad.

Thank you!

 

[kittydoc]

Correction--the opening in the shell is NOT a true pip opening. The shell is lifted off, and one small area (about the size of a lentil) has the shell lifted off, but the membrane intact. I just covered the exposed membrane with Neosporin ointment to keep it from drying out. More suggestions appreciated, especially on how to position the egg--leave it small end up (even though the chick may not have started the hole?), or flat, or air sac end up? I do not hear any peeping from inside the egg. Does anyone know if you can hear a chick's heartbeat through the shell with a stethoscope (pediatric end)?

 

[Farmer Viola]

Bear with me--this is my first incubation. I have used a Brinsea auto-turning (set it and forget it, to the extent possible) incubator. Down to just one live egg, and now that's in question. Everything fine on Day 19--stopped turning, upped the humidity, put in paper towel and covered the water well.

This morning (Day 20, but Day 21 happens in an hour or two), there was a thin yolk-like sticky substance spread out under the egg, and the shell was stuck to it. There is a small bit of shell chipped off the egg, but it appears to me that there is at least one membrane intact over the opening. Not sure if the chick pipped it, or if I chipped it off when I gently removed the messy egg to examine and clean it (just wiped off the excess goo with warm water, then put it back in the incubator on clean paper towels).

This "pip" hole is near the wrong end. The air sac at the correct end is nice and big.

(1) Any chance this chick is still alive?

(2) If so, is there anything I can do to help it?

I am just sick about this. I'm actually a small animal veterinarian who learned zero about poultry medicine in school (well, only production medicine--not backyard flocks). About half of the eggs I received via USPS were fertile but all but this one died.

Please, any suggestions greatly appreciated. Very frustrating and sad.

Thank you!

I have incubated a lot of shipped eggs, and malposition is very common with them. initially you thought it was a pip, but now you don't think it is a pip? what makes you think that? how else did the hole get created? I am just trying to understand what you are seeing, no offense intended

I would position the pip hole facing upward, toward the sky. that is for a pip that happened on the wrong end, assuming the beak is at the pip hole. the reason is that the nostrils need access to air, and if the egg rolls upside down, the liquid may fill the nostrils drowning the chick. if the beak is not located at the pip hole, then this would not apply

I would take it in a completely black room and candle the egg to look for movement. I would heat up the bathroom with a space heater and run the shower to increase the humidity as a good working environment. seeing movement is the only way I can think of to confirm it's alive at this point.

here is a thread about intervention, if you choose to help: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/9316/intervention-helping-your-chicks-hatch

if the hole is in fact a pip made on the wrong end, I believe it will be so malpositioned that it will require assistance. however, patience is key! after the initial pip, it can take another 12-24hrs for all the veins and yolk to absorb. only after absorption, should you start to intervene. you may also be able to see veins when candling. especially since day 21 has only just begun, I would definitely wait longer before taking any action. let me know what you see from candling

 

[Farmer Viola]

I have never tried to listen for a heart beat, but sometimes you can hear a faint clicking when you hold the egg up to your ear. this is from the position their neck is in - it gets a weird double bend in the egg, seems like it should break their neck. if they are breathing there is usually clicking, often mistaken for tapping on the shell.

is the liquid that is coming out yellow yolk? is it clear? is there any blood?

 

[kittydoc]

The shell is definitely cracked with a small area lifted off, but there is still a membrane where the shell was (that's what I coated with Neosporin to keep it from drying out). I just candled it in a steamy bathroom, and want to say there was slight movement, but I have floaters in my eyes and they can play tricks on me, especially when I'm looking at something small. I did leave the egg broken-shell side up. Through that little membrane "window" I can see part is very dark (chick) and part is clear. As I rotate the egg, parts are very dark, and I also see some fuzzy dark shadows in the lighter areas. The air sac is intact and looks normal.

The material was absorbed into the paper towel, and seemed like thin yolk, though some of it at the edges and on the shell was dried on fairly hard. I used warm water and a clean paper towel to remove 99% of whatever it was. It did not smell bad. It was just yellow--not visibly bloody.

I will see what happens over the next 24 hours. Thank you both for your thoughts/questions. I hope others continue to reply.

Thanks again!

 

[Farmer Viola]

the areas that are not dark may be the unabsorbed yolk. if the chick is alive, the yolk should start to absorb once it begins to breathe air. if the pip was created by the beak, then it should be breathing now.
if not, it should pip into the air cell to take it's first breath. only when the chick breathes, do the yolk and veins begin to receed. once the yolk is absorbed, you may be able to see a "hollow" spot where there was once clear/yellow/yolk. this would indicate it is safe to begin intervention.

this is a very good guide describing what I mean: www.backyardchickens.com/t/491013/goose-incubation-hatching-guide-completed

Graphics showing the appearence on candling of the unabsorbed yolk and blood vessels (left) and absorbed yolk and vessels as a 'hollow' void appears (right)

 

[kittydoc]

Thanks for the link to the goose hatching guide--very informative. I just wish I knew where the chick's beak is--it definitely is not in the air sac. I don't know if this happens or not, but I wonder whether it managed to puncture its own yolk sac pipping in the wrong place, and that it drowned while doing so (since that happened on the "down" side). I'll find out, eventually...this has just turned out to be a terribly expensive and worrisome experiment. I do plan to try again, but with less pricey hatching eggs so as not to add insult to injury. I also will buy eggs within driving distance if humanly possible rather than go through the postal service.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Thanks for the link to the goose hatching guide--very informative. I just wish I knew where the chick's beak is--it definitely is not in the air sac. I don't know if this happens or not, but I wonder whether it managed to puncture its own yolk sac pipping in the wrong place, and that it drowned while doing so (since that happened on the "down" side). I'll find out, eventually...this has just turned out to be a terribly expensive and worrisome experiment. I do plan to try again, but with less pricey hatching eggs so as not to add insult to injury. I also will buy eggs within driving distance if humanly possible rather than go through the postal service.

I don't want to be discouraging, but I think your theory is very likely... but I hope not. I have had a chick pipped wrong end and live, after assisted hatch. movement is the only thing that can confirm life at this point I think...

I have never had one which leaked liquid actually live, but it has only happened to me twice. once, the chick pipped the wrong end, and drowned before I could right the egg. the other time it happened, the chick pipped below the air cell line of the egg but on the right end. I could not figure why it died. it had some liquid coming out of the pip location. it did not breathe into the air cell to start the absorption process, it just pipped right out of the egg first try. so it was still wet in there. that one didn't drown, but it didn't live.. =\

I hear you on the shipped eggs. they are a serious gamble. and it makes it that much harder to actually learn from your hatch, there are so many extra variables outside of your control. if you can get local non shipped eggs, I'm confident that you will have a very successful hatch

 

[hildar]

Thanks for the link to the goose hatching guide--very informative. I just wish I knew where the chick's beak is--it definitely is not in the air sac. I don't know if this happens or not, but I wonder whether it managed to puncture its own yolk sac pipping in the wrong place, and that it drowned while doing so (since that happened on the "down" side). I'll find out, eventually...this has just turned out to be a terribly expensive and worrisome experiment. I do plan to try again, but with less pricey hatching eggs so as not to add insult to injury. I also will buy eggs within driving distance if humanly possible rather than go through the postal service.

I would advise that you go around your area to where people have eggs for sale, normally you can get a dozen from them at the same price that is good and fresh and is fertile. I am doing that maybe next year. I don't think I want to hatch out to many more. Not this yrear at least. I don't have to room down here for to many chickens and the big property is for our special breeds.

 

[kittydoc]

After not seeing any movement for two days, I gently opened up the egg and found that I was unfortunately right. The chick had pipped at the small end of the egg, and upside down (face down), and somehow released most of its yolk in the process. Poor little thing was perfect otherwise. We are driving to an adjacent state to buy some pricey chicks (but we have yet to lose a chick!), plus pick up some cheaper hatching eggs so we can hopefully prevent this 0 for 8 scenario from happening again.

Thanks to everyone for your help.