help!! family disagreeing on how to handle quail

[yearofhiss]

hi guys, i previously posted a thread concerning our first quail hatching experience.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/help-first-time-quail-owner-with-1-chick.1182248/

so i never mentioned that my dad was on vacation the entire time and he was the one who did his research beforehand and had to relay it to us. however he came back yesterday and is blaming all the deaths on us.
he claimed that the chicks CAN absolutely survive in the incubator for 3 days without food or water.
he also claimed that humidity doesn't matter as long as it is above 60%.
because of him telling us these things, we kept the hatched chicks in the incubator with about 80% humidity for about a day and a half before the humidity rose to 96% and chicks were still soaking wet and trampling each other to death.

he is still saying that all of that was correct and we just messed up.
and now he took the only surviving chick out of my room, where i was regulating the temperature and keeping it around 90 degrees and i was going to drop 5 degrees a week until room temperature as recommended by everywhere i have researched.
he put the chick in another room at room temperature and said it was fine and the chick should be used to room temperature anyway by now.
i tried saying that the temperature still needs to be pretty high (the chick is one week old so i was planning on making it 90 degrees) but he insisted it will be fine now.

whenever i try to tell him the technicalities of the things i researched, he says that we don't need to be so strict about everything because when he was little in china, they hatched perfectly fine without them stressing out about everything and making everything so perfect.

please help and tell me if he's right.

 

[jessi0430]

80 humidity is to high. They can go about 36 hours in the incubator maybe less not more they will starve. You did nothing wrong. You were doing everything right.

 

[JaeG]

No your Dad's not right. Quail are much smaller than chicken chicks and they are designed to be up and searching for food a lot faster than chickens. I wouldn't leave them in for longer than 24 hours max. I've had babies still pretty wet start pecking around for food. Chicken chicks can survive 3 days max, quail chicks will starve.

Incubating and hatching varies as to what your climate is but quail are very forgiving. A rough guide is 40-45% humidity for the first 14 days then upped to about 65%. The humidity will go up when they hatch but that gives you a bit of room to be able to open the incubator to remove some chicks without drying the ones still hatching out.

If you want the maximum number of chicks to survive to adulthood then you do need conditions to be perfect for them. He can't expect babies to survive in less than ideal conditions. Which surely is a waste of money (if nothing else).

That's a lot of chicks your parents tried to hatch. Why wasn't a brooder all set up and ready? And it would need to be a big brooder for 100-ish chicks too! Quail need heat until 3 weeks old indoors, sometimes longer if they are brooded outdoors.

I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way that adults don't know everything, and aren't always right. And thank you for having a good heart and caring about one little chick who you've taken care of to the best of your ability.

 

[yearofhiss]

No your Dad's not right. Quail are much smaller than chicken chicks and they are designed to be up and searching for food a lot faster than chickens. I wouldn't leave them in for longer than 24 hours max. I've had babies still pretty wet start pecking around for food. Chicken chicks can survive 3 days max, quail chicks will starve.

Incubating and hatching varies as to what your climate is but quail are very forgiving. A rough guide is 40-45% humidity for the first 14 days then upped to about 65%. The humidity will go up when they hatch but that gives you a bit of room to be able to open the incubator to remove some chicks without drying the ones still hatching out.

If you want the maximum number of chicks to survive to adulthood then you do need conditions to be perfect for them. He can't expect babies to survive in less than ideal conditions. Which surely is a waste of money (if nothing else).

That's a lot of chicks your parents tried to hatch. Why wasn't a brooder all set up and ready? And it would need to be a big brooder for 100-ish chicks too! Quail need heat until 3 weeks old indoors, sometimes longer if they are brooded outdoors.

I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way that adults don't know everything, and aren't always right. And thank you for having a good heart and caring about one little chick who you've taken care of to the best of your ability.

thank you for the reply. my dad told me that he watched a lot of YouTube videos and the people in the videos said that 3 days in the brooder was fine. he also said that the lid of their incubators had water condensed on it just like ours, meaning that they had super high humidity just like ours, which means that 80% humidity is supposedly fine too (?)

we're going to hatch 100 more eggs which is still too much for our incubator so i'm still worried about the humidity, which he is still planning to set high like last time. he's also not going to buy a heat lamp, just continue using the heater. and our "brood" will once again be a cardboard box. it's going to be too small probably because where are we gonna find a box big enough to fit at least 50 chicks if they all need about half a square foot??
he did say that we will take out every 15 or so chicks to prevent starving/lack of oxygen (?). i don't understand why he would say that though since he apparently believes they can survive 3 days without food.. so why is he saying two different things?

i really hope this works out somehow and we don't have a repeat of what happened this time. thank you for the help.

 

[JaeG]

High humidity during lockdown and hatch shouldn't be a problem, but leaving them in too long is. My Button quail hen has her chicks up and moving within hours of hatching. Once they are dry she heads for the food bowl with them!

Chicks can't 'drown' because the humidity is too high. They can only run out of oxygen due to insufficient ventilation in the incubator (which could've been another factor in you losing babies previously) or because they haven't lost enough moisture during the first part of incubation making their air cell too small, in which case they won't make it to the external pip stage. They suffocate - they don't drown. The higher humidity means you can open the incubator and not have the humidity drop too much, so you can get babies out as need be. I usually take mine out when they are peeping strongly and put them under a pre-warmed heatlamp to finish drying off. I am worried that the heater blowing air will end up chilling them rather than warming them.

It's very common to lose a few quail babies soon after hatch. Some just don't seem to recover from hatching, but if you are losing lots then something is wrong, either with the genetics of the birds, or with how they are being cared for.

Coccidiostat is a big risk if they are kept in damp, dirty conditions, and can quickly kill many chicks (and they are messy little beasts). They must be kept dry so watch they don't spill their water. Wet + poop = coccidiostat (a parasite) multiplying quickly and overwhelming the chicks systems.

Initially they need food scattered everywhere so that wherever they pick they find food. After a couple of days they should've all worked out where the food is. Often they need help finding the water. Splash your fingertips on the surface which often encourages them to peck at it too and find their water. Keep doing it as you introduce newly hatched chicks, though they usually learn to copy everyone else.

A heat lamp or a heat pad are the only ways to brood babies properly. Drafts are killers for chicks and they need a concentrated spot of heat to warm up in, then move away when they need to cool off, just like they would go in and out from under their mother. You can use a simple incandescent light bulb and cheap, clip on lamp, though for so many you may need two.

I hope for your sake it goes better this time around.

Here's a thread I found where someone was asking whether they could use a heater to brood their chicks:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/electric-space-heater-for-people-use-in-brooder.380307/

 

[JurassicBawk]

Too bad your father is more worried about being right that doing what is right for those babies. As long as he has that attitude, I foresee lots of quail deaths. If someone isn't willing to put in the time and effort to provide basic care and needs for animals, they shouldn't be allowed to bring them into this world. And watching Youtube videos and relying on memories from childhood does not an expert make.

Good luck with your situation, and hopefully you can prevent so many deaths this time by following your own research and the useful information given here.

 

[Floof]

During the first 14 days you want your humidity at about 45% and then during lock down I run my humidity up to about 70%. On day 16 you want to set up your brooder because chicks can hatch anytime between day 16 and 18 and even as late as day 20 (so don't give up on eggs if you hear peeping or they wiggle when you float test them). I normally remove chicks from the incubator between 12 and 24 hours after hatching. If your brooder is set up and warm they can finish fluffing up in there safely. It's super important that you grind your quail food up to a crumbly powder and that you use a narrow lipped quail waterer or put marbles in a a shallow water dish so they can't drown. THEY WILL DROWN if they have any opportunity. I use a cheap Rubbermaid tub for my brooder with a heat lamp that I bought from the hardware section of Walmart and the kind of grippy shelf liner for the flooring to prevent splay leg. I can fit about 50 quail per tub for the first 2 weeks but they need more room as they grow. Each brooder (tub, light, waterer, and shelf liner) costs about $16 to setup but they can be cleaned and reused with every hatch. Once they are fully feathered you can try turning off the heat lamps and see if they huddle together for heat or if they are warm enough and evenly spread out in your brooder.
You are right to think that they need to be in a heated brooder as they are so small and lose body heat quite quickly. Remind your family that hatching and raising quail is an investment that takes patience. Backyardchickens is a great resource full of friendly and helpful people and your family should feel welcome to ask any questions as they arise.

 

[birdmandan]

Your dad is wrong but since he is your dad, even when he is wrong, he is right. Also, any moron can shoot a youtube video and quite often, the uploader is a newbie trying to make some advertising money.

 

[DanielleInUro]

Dear yearofhiss's father,

I am a completely casual observer with no stake in any of this, and all I'm seeing is a tiny peek through a tiny window here. But from this casual, tiny-picture vantage point, I'd say that the family dynamics issues you've got playing out here look even slightly worse than the animal husbandry issues you have going on here. Just a thought.

Best,
A Casual Observer with No Stake Peeking Through a Tiny Window

 

[yearofhiss]

Dear yearofhiss's father,

I am a completely casual observer with no stake in any of this, and all I'm seeing is a tiny peek through a tiny window here. But from this casual, tiny-picture vantage point, I'd say that the family dynamics issues you've got playing out here look even slightly worse than the animal husbandry issues you have going on here. Just a thought.

Best,
A Casual Observer with No Stake Peeking Through a Tiny Window

it's fine, it's kind of just an Asian thing i guess. anyways my step mom told me that my dad IS planning on getting a heat lamp which means he is listening to me but he didn't actually tell me himself so i guess he doesn't want to admit he was wrong.

he built an outside area for the quail chick and the future quails. it is made with two layers of concrete blocks. he is planning on moving the chick out of the house anytime now. the chick is just under two weeks old. my dad says it is a female, which seems right because she has a lot of spots on her breast area just like the female pharaohs i've seen online.

the new eggs arrived yesterday and we actually got 120 eggs but 8 were cracked/didn't pass the float test, leaving us with 112. they've been in the bator at 97.5 degrees and about 45% humidity.