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- #11
i wanted them to breed just didn't think so soon. i am gonna put him in with his wether buddy
help, goat issue!!!!
- Thread starter Sillystunt
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I know this a little off topic, but I would be careful feeding that Buck, or whether as far as that goes, sweetfeed. To much can cause kidney stones and it is a very good possibility that you could loose them I that happens. My pygmys get goat food, or all stock, only and good hay.
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the sweet feed i give them is for dairy goats. It is goat food specific to their needs. The all stock they had is sweet feed as well. Should i get the goat pellets for meat goats instead? that isn't sweet feed but for meat goats. lol. i really have no clue so i am asking . i get them this 50/50 alfalfa hay stuff.
the sweet feed i give them is for dairy goats. It is goat food specific to their needs. The all stock they had is sweet feed as well. Should i get the goat pellets for meat goats instead? that isn't sweet feed but for meat goats. lol. i really have no clue so i am asking . i get them this 50/50 alfalfa hay stuff.
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the sweet feed i give them is for dairy goats. It is goat food specific to their needs. The all stock they had is sweet feed as well. Should i get the goat pellets for meat goats instead? that isn't sweet feed but for meat goats. lol. i really have no clue so i am asking . i get them this 50/50 alfalfa hay stuff.
Can you not find just plain goat food that is not sweet feed? The combination of sweet feed and alfalfa hay is not good. That is what I was feeding my Buck and he got kidney stones and died. Which that was well before I knew what I was doing, he was our first Pygmy. You can feed alfalfa hay, I just wouldn't do sweet feed. I try to keep there diet plain. If you do swap feed, make sure to do it slowley....you don't want to upset there tummies.
the sweet feed i give them is for dairy goats. It is goat food specific to their needs. The all stock they had is sweet feed as well. Should i get the goat pellets for meat goats instead? that isn't sweet feed but for meat goats. lol. i really have no clue so i am asking . i get them this 50/50 alfalfa hay stuff.
Can you not find just plain goat food that is not sweet feed? The combination of sweet feed and alfalfa hay is not good. That is what I was feeding my Buck and he got kidney stones and died. Which that was well before I knew what I was doing, he was our first Pygmy. You can feed alfalfa hay, I just wouldn't do sweet feed. I try to keep there diet plain. If you do swap feed, make sure to do it slowley....you don't want to upset there tummies.
As for feeding male goats...
First of all, make sure your grain is labelled for goats and has at least twice as much calcium as phosphorus. The 2:1 ratio is critical for males, as it helps prevent urinary calculi. Urinary calculi is where magnesium ammonium phosphate crystals form in the bladder and block the urethra, most commonly leading to a ruptured bladder and slow, painful death. I think urinary calculi may be what Barnyard is referring to as kidney stones, but I dunno..
Second...go easy on the grain for males, even if it is 2:1, Ca
. I had a buckling develop UC despite the fact that his grain was properly balanced. It turned out he was eating all his, then half the other buckling's serving, then laying down until the next meal was served instead of grazing or browsing or eating hay (consuming forage makes lots of saliva, which uses up phosphorus, which is good)... We saved him, but he'll never be "right." Bottom line...not so much grain for males, regardless of how properly it's balanced.
Also, I'd recommend pelleted grain for males.. No textured grain or "sweet feed." Reason being, textured feed allows the goat an opportunity to cherry pick the feed. Perhaps they really like the corn, so they pick around and eat lots of that....well, that throws the entire balance off. Corn -- like most grains! -- is very, very high in phosphorus and has almost no calcium, so eating too much corn can lead to UC. And corn's not the only thing they could cherry pick and get too much phosphorus, either...I'm just using it as an example. Pelleted feed, on the other hand, is balanced in each pellet. There's no cherry picking pelleted feed.
On to hay... Alfalfa has a lot of calcium and protein in it, and not so much phosphorus. Grass has a lot of phosphorus, and not so much calcium or protein.. Calcium allows the body to absorb phosphorus, instead of just sending it on out through the urine where it can reach saturation levels and crystalize with magnesium and ammonia to form UC.. That's why alfalfa/grass mix hay works so well for goats....the calcium in the alfalfa offsets the phosphorus in the grass, and the grass provides bulk, brings the overall protein content down to that seemingly magical 16% range, and makes it a little cheaper to buy..
I also know folks who feed straight alfalfa to males to dovetail the feeding of huge amounts of grain.. Only straight alfalfa will due if you're planning to feed lots of grain, because alfalfa's the only thing that's got half a chance of containing sufficient calcium to help offset the huge quantities of phosphorus in the grain..
What seems to be working for us recently is feeding the boys a cheaper grassy hay, and instead of supplementing with goat-labeled grain, we're using 17% gauranteed protein alfalfa pellets. A bag of pellets costs twice as much as an equal quantity of straight alfalfa hay by weight, but they're 100% efficient with the pellets. Zero wastage.. We could, of course, have started using more expensive straight-alfalfa or alfalfa-mix hay to incorporate more calcium, then fed the cheaper goat-labelled grain to supplement, but goats use more hay than grain. As such, being able to continue feeding cheaper hay has turned out to make the whole endeavor cheaper overall.. Plus we don't have to keep two stores of hay, which is nice.. All I have to do differently is pick up a bag of alfalfa pellets from time to time and feed that instead of grain.
I'm certainly not saying grass hay and alfalfa pellets are THE WAY to go or anything like that, and it's not something I've heard of a lot of folks doing...but it made sense to us, so we tried it, we've been doing it a little while now, and our little UC guy so far hasn't plugged up again.. We think it's a winning combo, but as with most things...YMMV.
First of all, make sure your grain is labelled for goats and has at least twice as much calcium as phosphorus. The 2:1 ratio is critical for males, as it helps prevent urinary calculi. Urinary calculi is where magnesium ammonium phosphate crystals form in the bladder and block the urethra, most commonly leading to a ruptured bladder and slow, painful death. I think urinary calculi may be what Barnyard is referring to as kidney stones, but I dunno..
Second...go easy on the grain for males, even if it is 2:1, Ca
. I had a buckling develop UC despite the fact that his grain was properly balanced. It turned out he was eating all his, then half the other buckling's serving, then laying down until the next meal was served instead of grazing or browsing or eating hay (consuming forage makes lots of saliva, which uses up phosphorus, which is good)... We saved him, but he'll never be "right." Bottom line...not so much grain for males, regardless of how properly it's balanced.Also, I'd recommend pelleted grain for males.. No textured grain or "sweet feed." Reason being, textured feed allows the goat an opportunity to cherry pick the feed. Perhaps they really like the corn, so they pick around and eat lots of that....well, that throws the entire balance off. Corn -- like most grains! -- is very, very high in phosphorus and has almost no calcium, so eating too much corn can lead to UC. And corn's not the only thing they could cherry pick and get too much phosphorus, either...I'm just using it as an example. Pelleted feed, on the other hand, is balanced in each pellet. There's no cherry picking pelleted feed.
On to hay... Alfalfa has a lot of calcium and protein in it, and not so much phosphorus. Grass has a lot of phosphorus, and not so much calcium or protein.. Calcium allows the body to absorb phosphorus, instead of just sending it on out through the urine where it can reach saturation levels and crystalize with magnesium and ammonia to form UC.. That's why alfalfa/grass mix hay works so well for goats....the calcium in the alfalfa offsets the phosphorus in the grass, and the grass provides bulk, brings the overall protein content down to that seemingly magical 16% range, and makes it a little cheaper to buy..
I also know folks who feed straight alfalfa to males to dovetail the feeding of huge amounts of grain.. Only straight alfalfa will due if you're planning to feed lots of grain, because alfalfa's the only thing that's got half a chance of containing sufficient calcium to help offset the huge quantities of phosphorus in the grain..
What seems to be working for us recently is feeding the boys a cheaper grassy hay, and instead of supplementing with goat-labeled grain, we're using 17% gauranteed protein alfalfa pellets. A bag of pellets costs twice as much as an equal quantity of straight alfalfa hay by weight, but they're 100% efficient with the pellets. Zero wastage.. We could, of course, have started using more expensive straight-alfalfa or alfalfa-mix hay to incorporate more calcium, then fed the cheaper goat-labelled grain to supplement, but goats use more hay than grain. As such, being able to continue feeding cheaper hay has turned out to make the whole endeavor cheaper overall.. Plus we don't have to keep two stores of hay, which is nice.. All I have to do differently is pick up a bag of alfalfa pellets from time to time and feed that instead of grain.
I'm certainly not saying grass hay and alfalfa pellets are THE WAY to go or anything like that, and it's not something I've heard of a lot of folks doing...but it made sense to us, so we tried it, we've been doing it a little while now, and our little UC guy so far hasn't plugged up again.. We think it's a winning combo, but as with most things...YMMV.
I feed my pygmys and Nigerians Purina goat chow (small amount if not in production) and costal hay with a treat of either Alfalfa, T&A or O& A to mix it up for them. I regularly add Ammonium Chloride (from Hoegger goat supp) to their goat minerals to prevent problems with urinary stones. Also I wether my boys at least 4 mo to allow the urethra to grow some. If the buck kid is 4-5 months old be sure he can and will mate the doe. NDs are so small best to wait until females are at least a year old to mate them to avoid problems with deliveries
- Thread starter
- #17
okk, so no sweet for da boys!!!! Go get pellets(meat goat kind only at store) Feed them less grains more 50/50 hay. Also they hate the berry mineral block i got them. Any suggestions?
So how much pellets per boy? 1 cup daily? i do a cip in morning and a cup at night. Think i am feeding way to much!!! Thank you all for your help!!! If she is prego any thing i should feed her to help her and baby out? I will put her in a seperate pen w/ small wether until she births(if she is preggo, doubt it but not ruling it out)
So how much pellets per boy? 1 cup daily? i do a cip in morning and a cup at night. Think i am feeding way to much!!! Thank you all for your help!!! If she is prego any thing i should feed her to help her and baby out? I will put her in a seperate pen w/ small wether until she births(if she is preggo, doubt it but not ruling it out)
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Loose minerals, labeled for goats. If you can't find something labeled for goats, a loose cattle mineral will work in a pinch so long as it's not "Hi-Mag" or "Spring" mineral, as these tend to be very, very high in magnesium....magnesium, of course, being part of the magnesium ammonium phosphate stones of urinary calculi. Make sure it's good mineral, too...if you see a whole bunch of instances of the word 'oxide' on the ingredient tag, chances are that it's not a good mineral.
For instance, you want copper sulfate or copper chelate -- not copper oxide. You want to see ferrous sulfate, too...not ferrous oxide or iron oxide, though some contain both with the oxide form included primarily to lend the rusty red color most folks are familiar with in mineral mixes.. If you look at the tag on a bag of "American Stockman Big-6," for instance, it's like "Copper Oxide, Magnesium Oxide, Iron Oxide, ........." on and on and on. Basically, it's an $8 bag of rust, salt, and a few other cheaply-formulated minerals that'll go right through the animal instead of being absorbed on account of extremely low bioavailability.
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Hay, graze, and browse is their primary source of food. Bagged feed is a supplement. Supplement according to body condition. If their body condition is such that they don't need supplementation...don't supplement. If they start looking like they need supplementation, supplement again until they're back where you want them.
As complicated as feeding a goat can be...it can also be just that simple.
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Kids in utero do most of their growing in the last two months of the pregnancy. If a goat is too fat or too thin going into those last two months and those kids start really sapping her reserves, she can develop ketosis, aka "pregnancy toxemia," which is where the dam-to-be's body starts breaking down fat stores to provide energy. The fat is broken down incompletely, which leads to a buildup of ketones in the blood....ketosis. A doe in ketosis will do the exact opposite of what she needs to do...where she needs to eat high-carbohydrate food for energy so her body will stop breaking down fat, she'll instead go completely off her feed and spiral out until she dies.
Pregnancy toxemia usually strikes at the top and bottom of your herd in terms of body condition.. The easy keepers and poor-doers.. What you basically want to do is make sure the doe doesn't get too fat in early pregnancy, and then start boosting her grain later in pregnancy to maintain good conditioning.. If you can keep her in good condition all the way through -- not too fat, not too thin -- she should be fine.
Loose minerals, labeled for goats. If you can't find something labeled for goats, a loose cattle mineral will work in a pinch so long as it's not "Hi-Mag" or "Spring" mineral, as these tend to be very, very high in magnesium....magnesium, of course, being part of the magnesium ammonium phosphate stones of urinary calculi. Make sure it's good mineral, too...if you see a whole bunch of instances of the word 'oxide' on the ingredient tag, chances are that it's not a good mineral.
For instance, you want copper sulfate or copper chelate -- not copper oxide. You want to see ferrous sulfate, too...not ferrous oxide or iron oxide, though some contain both with the oxide form included primarily to lend the rusty red color most folks are familiar with in mineral mixes.. If you look at the tag on a bag of "American Stockman Big-6," for instance, it's like "Copper Oxide, Magnesium Oxide, Iron Oxide, ........." on and on and on. Basically, it's an $8 bag of rust, salt, and a few other cheaply-formulated minerals that'll go right through the animal instead of being absorbed on account of extremely low bioavailability.
Quote:
Hay, graze, and browse is their primary source of food. Bagged feed is a supplement. Supplement according to body condition. If their body condition is such that they don't need supplementation...don't supplement. If they start looking like they need supplementation, supplement again until they're back where you want them.
As complicated as feeding a goat can be...it can also be just that simple.
Quote:
Kids in utero do most of their growing in the last two months of the pregnancy. If a goat is too fat or too thin going into those last two months and those kids start really sapping her reserves, she can develop ketosis, aka "pregnancy toxemia," which is where the dam-to-be's body starts breaking down fat stores to provide energy. The fat is broken down incompletely, which leads to a buildup of ketones in the blood....ketosis. A doe in ketosis will do the exact opposite of what she needs to do...where she needs to eat high-carbohydrate food for energy so her body will stop breaking down fat, she'll instead go completely off her feed and spiral out until she dies.
Pregnancy toxemia usually strikes at the top and bottom of your herd in terms of body condition.. The easy keepers and poor-doers.. What you basically want to do is make sure the doe doesn't get too fat in early pregnancy, and then start boosting her grain later in pregnancy to maintain good conditioning.. If you can keep her in good condition all the way through -- not too fat, not too thin -- she should be fine.
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Yelp, that would be what I am talking about...It was just easier to explain it as Kidney stones
Yelp, that would be what I am talking about...It was just easier to explain it as Kidney stones
Even calling it "urinary calculi" is misleading, because when people see 'calculi' they immediately think 'calcium' when the reality is that calcium helps prevent urinary calculi. I've had people tell me before that they won't feed alfalfa because it's got too much calcium and they're worried their bucks and wethers will get calculi.
That's just a shame, IMO..
In cats, they call the condition struvite stones, as 'struvite' is apparently the common name for crystallized magnesium ammonium phosphate. It's the same condition, though.
Interestingly enough, most "urinary tract health" cat food is low-magnesium instead of balanced for higher calcium and lower phosphorus.. That's why I caution against "hi-mag" or "spring" mineral for male goats, though I've only seen a scarce word or two from the experts on the danger of high magnesium intake and male goats. I don't think the role of magnesium's been considered much yet when it comes to a goat's urinary tract health.
Maybe one day...who knows?
That's just a shame, IMO..
In cats, they call the condition struvite stones, as 'struvite' is apparently the common name for crystallized magnesium ammonium phosphate. It's the same condition, though.
Interestingly enough, most "urinary tract health" cat food is low-magnesium instead of balanced for higher calcium and lower phosphorus.. That's why I caution against "hi-mag" or "spring" mineral for male goats, though I've only seen a scarce word or two from the experts on the danger of high magnesium intake and male goats. I don't think the role of magnesium's been considered much yet when it comes to a goat's urinary tract health.
Maybe one day...who knows?
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