HELP!!! I've lost 2 already!!

[warmfuzzies]

I am the OPs friend, let me see if I can help explain things.

First, we can buy three kinds of food here. medicated starter, unmedicated meatbird starter/grower, and layer feed.

The meatbird starter/grower works fine for starting chicks, I have used it for several batches, starting them with medicated feed and switching at about 4 weeks. I have raised some baches on the meatbird feed alone.

I wondered if she should give them medicated starter, would that take the place of the antibiotics? (I am assuming that is what the medication you speak of is)

And, if the birds are getting pleny of feed, more then they need, there shouldnt be compitition to the point if reduced intake should there?

Also, one last question. She has a baby goat in the same coop, seperated from the chickens. Could the goat carry something dangerous to the chicks?

 

[threehorses]

The amounts of amprolium in medicated feed are not meant for treatment. It's a "coccidiostat" dosage - one designed to let birds get small usually unnoticable exposures to cocci so that they develop an immunity to the species to which they're exposed. So just putting them all on medicated feed won't work for coccidiosis.

What she needs is the "coccidiocide" strength of the same medicine, amprolium, which is sold as "Corid". Just so you'll know, amprolium is not an antibiotic, and you do not want to use an antibiotic as cocci are protazoa, not bacteria. Additionally you never want to use an antibiotic for prevention or anything at all that isn't quite clearly at least secondarily bacterial in nature. Antibiotics cause disgestive bacterial imbalances and end up causing secondary yeast and bacterial diarrhea as well as 'super bugs" if used improperly. So the med we're talking about is a treatment-strength amprolium. Corid. Not Sulmet.

And as far as competition, the amount isn't the deciding factor. One could give birds a whole pile of food, enough for three days, but flock dynamics determine whether or not a bird gets enough to eat. So basically there always is competition. The way of making sure everything is fine is not by theorizing I'm afraid - but handling the birds.

Let's look at what we have - one set of birds that are approaching being old enough to lay within weeks, and another set half their age. That's a big difference in size, diets, immunity stages etc. Think about it that way. Decades of experience raising these birds has told me that birds twice the age of others who are still just coming out of the starter will cause problems - and a problem is why she's writing, isn't it?

The baby goat shouldn't be a problem at all.

Lucky her, too as they're so cute!

For the feed, they could all get starter/grower now as the chicks are that age where they can switch off of starter. I'm just wondering if they're all in the same cage, how is it that they're getting different feed?

If there isn't a problem, then I'm not quite sure what the question is?

 

[threehorses]

Deleted - I have no idea why I quoted myself.

 

[warmfuzzies]

I was just mentioning the feed as it seemed to be a concern to several people and I am pretty sure thats not the problem.

Thanks for clearing up the medicine issue, I thought the cocci was some kind of parasite or something, so I was wondering. And I agree, I prefer to avoid antibiotics unless absolutely necesary too.

I was thinking about it, and I think you are right about the compitition, too. I have mine all together, (Ages 18 months, 6 months, 4 months, 3 months, and 2 months.

) but I have a creep feeder for the little ones, so that could very well be contributing to the problem for her.

For the feed, they could all get starter/grower now as the chicks are that age where they can switch off of starter. I'm just wondering if they're all in the same cage, how is it that they're getting different feed?

Im sorry if I was confusing. Her chicks and older pullets are all getting the same food. It is meatbird starter/grower.

She talked to a vet (several actually) and is on her way to get some medicine, but I am not sure what, just what the vet recommended.

We live about 2 miles apart, and are back and forth a lot. Should I get some and treat my birds now, or wait and see if they get anything? They seem fine now. Sorry for all the questions, I am still trying to learn all I can about this stuff.

 

[threehorses]

No, please don't apologize as there's no reason to!

We're just trying to get things sorted out across this internet space and sometimes it takes a bit of back-and-forth to get on the same page. I'm 100% certain that part of the confusion was caused by me. /wink

So the meds - if they're antibiotics just let us know which ones and we'll help you with the probiotics to cover the digestive health. Vets unfortunately often forget that step. They have other things on their minds. But it's always good to use a probiotic any time an antibiotic is given.

Did she actually take the birds in to have the vet look at them before the prescribed a medicine possibly?

It might be they don't even need one - just a different set up.

I wouldn't treat yours just yet with either med - hers or Corid - unless you're seeing some illness. And then if you tell us what you're seeing, that could help.

Instead, I'd just boost their immunity. That's the best thing to do with young birds because they're contantly fighting new things until they're about five months old and their immunity is more settled. That's why we keep different ages apart - as they're all at different stages in their battle. You don't want to rush them into the next stage when they're still fighting the last earlier stage.

Yogurt to help their digestive tract, good starter grower, clean water. Possible vitamins/minerals in their water. Clean bedding, fresh air, lots of space - very important. Feel them at least weekly to make sure everyone is getting a lot of feed. I've watched so many batches of babies over the years that so often I see some not try to eat, not even try because they know the other babies are just bigger and stronger and they get jostled. Food will be left, there's so much - and no obvious fights at all. Just very very subtle body language and weight lost. Even just this year - when I think I've seen it all - it happened and I had older birds, all the same age, do the competition bit. Plenty of feed - excess feed. So it happens sometimes.

take some time and watch them. We're supposed to do that for fun anyway, yes?

Really observe them and see who the bosses are, who the more delicate personalities are etc. Then feel their weights and see if you don't feel a distinct difference. It's pretty interesting stuff to do.

/hugs to you and she both.

 

[kyliesmommax5]

OK, Well, After being on the phone all morning calling vets, I finally found one that knew anything about chickens. All the rest told me to take them to CSU diagnostics to find out whats wrong. Well any who, She said that she would put them on AmTech oxytetracycline and see if that helped.
I asked her about Corid and she had never even heard of it! Neither had the feed store lady (who is very knowledgeable about almost everything lol)

So I went ahead and started them on that and switched back over to chick starter for everyone! Im not sure what else to do as my resources are limited here! So I will keep you updated!! Thanks for all your help so far!!

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Honestly, that's the same advice anyone would give, the shot-gun advice. If she doesn't know what Corid is...

I personally would not recommend it - particularly if there was digestive issues, it'll only make them worse. But if you do it please be sure to use the right dosage and treat with non-yogurt probiotics every day of the 14 day (no less) treatment.

 

[warmfuzzies]

She also told her to treat them for 2-3 days, and they should be fine. I wondered about that too. Its a good thing you all are here, since apparently no one around here knows much!

They are big animal vets.

So, can you get Corid without a prescription? Where do you order it from? I think some of this stuff would be good to have on hand when you have 50-60 birds.

 

[threehorses]

Well 2-3 drays isn't fine with most antibiotics unless she's giving injectable Tylan. It depends on the specific antibiotic- any chance that you can get her to tell you what it is?

Then again, it could be that she sent home piperazine in which case she'd be right - or a wormer, in which case that would be odd advice.

Corid is available without prescription from most feedstores and TSC. If you don't see it in the poultry section, you can find it in the cattle or swine section as it's the same medicine for all species. Or you can price-shop and order it online. It's wonderful to have on hand for younger birds, yes.

 

[kyliesmommax5]

Ok well, They have been on AmTech oxytetracycline in their water for 24 hours now. They all seem to be feeling better, I am going to continue it for awhile to be sure. I did however find Corid at our local Big R!! Do you think that I should continue with the oxytetracycline and see what happens or switch to the corid?
Would it be harder on there systems to switch to something diff. now?
Thanks!