Help Me Pick My Tom...

[americanchicks]

Hey all! I have raised BBW turkeys for meat the last couple years now. I really enjoyed having them around so I decided to get some Bourbon Reds.

I have 5 total. Lucked out with 3 jennies and 2 jakes, they are almost 6 months. My question is how to choose which tom to keep? Canadate #1. He is a beauty. He is dark red and his markings are great. Shows no aggression to people but has been picking on the dogs. Also has started fighting more with the other Jake who is about 2 weeks younger. It doesn't last long and hasn't been any injuries. The younger Jake always submits. Candidate #2 he is not as impressive in coloring or pattern. He will join in when the other Jake attacks the dog but he never starts it. More shy and reserved than the other drake.

I have noticed when it comes to chasing off the dogs it is really 2 that do it. Canadate #1 and one of his 2 broodmates. I got 3 poults from one breeder 2 from another. Ended up with a Jake from both places. So that means canadate #2 would be better for the gene pool. Him and his broodmate are both quite and a little shy.

So there it is. I have one tom who is gorgeous but kind of a jerk. And one that is not very impressive but quiet and shy. But who's to say it won't change once I get rid of the competition. I don't need a tom I can cuddle. I just don't want one that attacks me or my kids. They are older 7 and 9 but still.

BTW whoever is not chosen will be the guest of honor at Thanksgiving this year
Canadate #1

Canadate#2

 

[R2elk]

Hey all! I have raised BBW turkeys for meat the last couple years now. I really enjoyed having them around so I decided to get some Bourbon Reds.

I have 5 total. Lucked out with 3 jennies and 2 jakes, they are almost 6 months. My question is how to choose which tom to keep? Canadate #1. He is a beauty. He is dark red and his markings are great. Shows no aggression to people but has been picking on the dogs. Also has started fighting more with the other Jake who is about 2 weeks younger. It doesn't last long and hasn't been any injuries. The younger Jake always submits. Candidate #2 he is not as impressive in coloring or pattern. He will join in when the other Jake attacks the dog but he never starts it. More shy and reserved than the other drake.

I have noticed when it comes to chasing off the dogs it is really 2 that do it. Canadate #1 and one of his 2 broodmates. I got 3 poults from one breeder 2 from another. Ended up with a Jake from both places. So that means canadate #2 would be better for the gene pool. Him and his broodmate are both quite and a little shy.

So there it is. I have one tom who is gorgeous but kind of a jerk. And one that is not very impressive but quiet and shy. But who's to say it won't change once I get rid of the competition. I don't need a tom I can cuddle. I just don't want one that attacks me or my kids. They are older 7 and 9 but still.

BTW whoever is not chosen will be the guest of honor at Thanksgiving this year
Canadate #1
View attachment 2846292

Canadate#2View attachment 2846294

Personally I choose dominants over subordinates given everything else being equal. Subordinates that get a reprieve from the dominants can turn out to be even worse in their temperament once what is keeping them subordinate is removed.

 

[retired farmgirl]

I bought a tom turkey Bronze standard from a friend. It was about 6 months old, but it became very aggressive after I got a turkey hen. My friends (previous owners) used to treat it like a puppy -stroking it and staying in close contact with it often.
I have heard that when they mature at about 2 yrs, the tom will then see the person as competition or predator and attack if coddled as a poult/juvenile.
Is this true?

I've also heard the opposite-that all the attention potentially makes them more docile.
So, which way do I go with the poults I am getting? Attention and coddling or just be in charge of their care but not get too friendly. Does this apply equally to males and females?

One other question. Does their nesting perch need to be open or covered? Again, I've read both.

 

[R2elk]

I bought a tom turkey Bronze standard from a friend. It was about 6 months old, but it became very aggressive after I got a turkey hen. My friends (previous owners) used to treat it like a puppy -stroking it and staying in close contact with it often.
I have heard that when they mature at about 2 yrs, the tom will then see the person as competition or predator and attack if coddled as a poult/juvenile.
Is this true?

You missed the part that a human imprinted turkey can also think people are its mates or competition.

I go out of my way to not imprint my poults. I provide them with food and water. I do not hold them or spend time with them. They grow up understanding that people are not turkeys.

All of the human aggressive turkeys that I have had to deal with were human imprinted as poults.

Turkeys are sexually mature at 6 months although most will not begin egg laying or mating until the spring following the year they were hatched.

Does their nesting perch need to be open or covered? Again, I've read both.

It can be either. If covered be sure that the roof is high enough above the roost that they can fully extend themselves including their wings. The same applies to how far away from a wall the roosts should be.

 

[retired farmgirl]

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad to hear that the Mothering/imprinting/best friend thing doesn't work. That's exactly what I was thinking as well. I'm getting these from a hatchery so hopefully it will be good stock without aggressive tendencies.

How tall should the roosting section of the pen be? Doubt they'll even use it since I'm going to let them free range on the 3 acres where the goats and chickens hang out during the day. My plan for just the roosting area was 8 feet high and 8 ft by 8 ft and with a few roosting sections maybe 6 ft off the ground and a ladder connecting them. I also have a covered area for toms with a 3 ft section off the ground for roosting/nesting and for rainy days which is 8 by 10 and connected to the open space b y a door. The pen is next to the chicken pen where they go at night.
I'm hoping the turkeys will go out in the field with the goats -like the chickens do and then return to their "home" at night.

Since the royal palms are flyers, should I clip their wings? Is this permanent or temporary? I don't want them to fly too far away but I would like for them to be able to get away from potential predators. The chickens figured out that if they hang out where the goats are, the foxes, raccoons etc. don't bother them. In exchange, they get to eat leftover goat food. Working well so far......

Any thoughts?

 

[R2elk]

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad to hear that the Mothering/imprinting/best friend thing doesn't work. That's exactly what I was thinking as well. I'm getting these from a hatchery so hopefully it will be good stock without aggressive tendencies.

How tall should the roosting section of the pen be? Doubt they'll even use it since I'm going to let them free range on the 3 acres where the goats and chickens hang out during the day. My plan for just the roosting area was 8 feet high and 8 ft by 8 ft and with a few roosting sections maybe 6 ft off the ground and a ladder connecting them. I also have a covered area for toms with a 3 ft section off the ground for roosting/nesting and for rainy days which is 8 by 10 and connected to the open space b y a door. The pen is next to the chicken pen where they go at night.
I'm hoping the turkeys will go out in the field with the goats -like the chickens do and then return to their "home" at night.

Since the royal palms are flyers, should I clip their wings? Is this permanent or temporary? I don't want them to fly too far away but I would like for them to be able to get away from potential predators. The chickens figured out that if they hang out where the goats are, the foxes, raccoons etc. don't bother them. In exchange, they get to eat leftover goat food. Working well so far......

Any thoughts?

My roosts are from 3" to 6" tall.

Starting out with poults only and no adults, I would clip one wing once they started flying to places I didn't want them to be. After their flight feathers grew back, it was like they forgot how to fly. In emergency cases they learned very quickly that they could still fly.

Starting with poults and adults for an example, I don't clip wings and let the adults teach the poults the rules.

Heritage toms can fly very well too. They seem to forget they can fly once they reach a certain weight or maybe it is when they start spending all their time strutting. They have no problem getting up on a 6' high roost.

My turkeys have a 50' x 100' run. The hens let themselves out or let me know when they want out to go to their hidden nests. The tom stays in the run even though he could easily fly out.

I have an approximately 2 acre area with 2"x4"x6' welded wire fencing that works well to keep out dogs, coyotes and fox. It also works well to keep the turkeys in because there is no top bar or rail to act as an attractive roost site. If there is a top bar or rail, the turkeys will use it as a perch and almost always get down on the wrong side of the fence and immediately forget how to get back over the fence.

I actively trap predators and remove them as soon as they show up. Skunks are egg eaters and will take the eggs right from under a sitting hen. Fox and raccoons will take turkeys of any age. Owls will tak juvenile turkeys.



The turkeys may need encouragement to return to their roost area at night until they become used to the routins.

 

[retired farmgirl]

Thanks! Very helpful information yet again.
I have one broody turkey hen who laid eggs and has been sitting on them for about 3 wks. I don't think any are fertile. I candled them and one did have a darker area, but she has been eating them and is now down to one or two. The male died back in the summer when it was hot, so she is the only turk I have at present.

She has shown interest in my baby chicks but can't get too close due to the pen they are in and I'm not sure how that would work out. She has free-ranged in the yard and does fly around, but sleeps usually on the goat's gate next to the barn.

I am hoping to put them all in the field during the day with the other livestock instead of the yard or a pen. Tommy (now deceased) had gotten to where he would follow me around and attack. I have lots of visitors and don't want that going on. But, I still want them to be as free as possible.

I don't get the 15 poults until Sept 5th. Do you think my one-eyed lonely blue slate turkey, Ellie Mae, would take them "under her wing" ? (I think the rooster pecked her eye out several months ago.)

 

[R2elk]

I don't get the 15 poults until Sept 5th. Do you think my one-eyed lonely blue slate turkey, Ellie Mae, would take them "under her wing" ?

The way to find out is by placing her and the poults in the same "room" at the same time. Stay there with them and watch carefully. If she wants to adopt the poults, she will start cooing and pleading with them. She will carefully herd them all into one area that will typically be with her between them and you.

If she starts by pecking at them, immediately remove her from the "room" and put them in a brooder. Have the brooder ready to go before hand in case she doesn't adopt them.

I have one broody turkey hen who laid eggs and has been sitting on them for about 3 wks. I don't think any are fertile. I candled them and one did have a darker area,

The one with the darker area is likely to be a rotten egg.

Hens will normally remove bad eggs from their nest and carry them to a distance before dropping them. Most do not eat them.

 

[retired farmgirl]

That's interesting to know. I have actually witnessed Ellie Mae eating her own eggs. It's her second batch of eggs since I got her in June. I had big hopes for the first run, but Tommy was being helpful and sat on them too so they mostly got squished, though I did observe her eating a few then too.

This time she started with 14 eggs and is now down to two. I don't know if she ate them all, but definitely part of those were eaten by her. I also found one hidden outside at least 50 ft away. Not sure if she abandoned it or if a wild turkey came through and left it.

I agree that the dark one is probably rotten. Something in there is smelling really bad, but then the egg numbers keep dwindling and the smell goes away. Poor thing. She really wants a family.

I'll try your suggestion when the new ones come. Thanks for mentoring me on that. I've got a brooder set up and ready to go, but it sure would be nice for her to take over .

I've just "mothered" 11 chicks that the broody hen refused to deal with. Nows that they are almost big enough to turn out with the other chickens I can almost take a few weeks off. I hope they can mimic the other chickens' behaviors, but I'll still have to watch them closely to make sure the cats don't knock them off. They're not roosting yet at night, but are interested in it during the day, are scratching out little spots of straw, pecking and hunting bugs and stretching out in the sun. But at night, they gather in a pile in the dog carrier and I bring them inside.