Help save my flock from Marecks!

[Aerielle]

The depressing day has come when I finally have to deal with Marecks. I purchased 2 pullets about 4 weeks ago and had them quarantined in my garage. They had cocci then sour crop, then finally the underlying disease was apparent when they became lame. After homeopathic attempts with colloidal silver and other herbs I had then euthanized to end their suffering. A necropsy was performed by CAHFS and confirmed Marecks and cocci.

Is there anything I can do to protect my existing flock? They are not vaccinated and I realize that even though the others were separated my entire backyard is now contaminated. I have a mixed flock of 3 mos to 3 years. Should I try and vaccinate them now or just wait and see what happens? No one is showing symptoms at this time but realize it takes several weeks to manifest.

Any suggestions? Holistic remedies? Similar circumstance and outcome? It's been devastating to watch the other 2 go downhill after so much love and care, I can't imagine my heartbreak if my entire flock is affected.

I did contact the breeder who sold them to me and let him know as well.

 

[chooks4life]

Have you tried Hypericum/St John's Wort? Can be used in homeopathic or pill form. It's used in humans to treat neurological diseases and disorders and some people on this forum reckon they've successfully treated their birds with Mareks' using this.

Best wishes.

 

[Nambroth]

The depressing day has come when I finally have to deal with Marecks. I purchased 2 pullets about 4 weeks ago and had them quarantined in my garage. They had cocci then sour crop, then finally the underlying disease was apparent when they became lame. After homeopathic attempts with colloidal silver and other herbs I had then euthanized to end their suffering. A necropsy was performed by CAHFS and confirmed Marecks and cocci.

Is there anything I can do to protect my existing flock? They are not vaccinated and I realize that even though the others were separated my entire backyard is now contaminated. I have a mixed flock of 3 mos to 3 years. Should I try and vaccinate them now or just wait and see what happens? No one is showing symptoms at this time but realize it takes several weeks to manifest.

Any suggestions? Holistic remedies? Similar circumstance and outcome? It's been devastating to watch the other 2 go downhill after so much love and care, I can't imagine my heartbreak if my entire flock is affected.

I did contact the breeder who sold them to me and let him know as well.

If your existing flock has been exposed to your Marek's birds (RIP... sorry for your loss!) then vaccination probably would be a waste of time and money. You can still do it, if they are healthy, but in reality their immune systems are already either building resistance... or not. Vaccination probably won't do much that their immune systems are not already doing.

If they have NOT been exposed, then you can vaccinate if you really want to. It is not proper vaccination... proper vaccination really needs to be administered to chicks less than 36 hours old. But-- it can't hurt and might help. Again, now that they have their adult immune systems, it's sort of just a toss of the dice once they become exposed. Many chickens do build resistance without the vaccination, but it depends on their heritage and genetics and overall health.

The best thing you can do for your birds now is to keep things clean and as low stress as possible. Stress and compromised immune systems (from other illness or problems) can allow latent Marek's virus to "wake back up" and cause symptoms.

I have an FAQ that has some holistic treatments. I remain skeptical of some of them but some of them are safe to use even on healthy birds, so if you want to try there is no harm in it. I recommend against Hypericum unless you are seeing active symptoms, though.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq

 

[Aerielle]

Thanks for the replies. I did use Hypercium on the two pullets but really didn't see an improvement and did not want them to suffer through a prolonged dosing experiment. I will read through the link of other herbs to see if I have any on hand. I do have oxine and a fogger that I was going to use with the activated solution and clean my garage, crates, waters and grounds in the hopes of killing the virus. I read that activated oxine is one of the few things that will. Hopefully it will make a difference. This has been such a heartbreaking disease. I know one of my 3 mos babies must have been exposed because she had ran into the garage and was pecking the food off the beak of one of the quarantined pullets the 2nd day I brought them home. That little baby thinks she runs the place always escaping. I was mortified when I found out and this was before I realized how truly sick the quarantined birds were. she became sick the next day but I gave her some poly visol and greens and she bounced back within 24 hours. Now I can only imagine my whole flock has been exposed. It's a waiting game and I'm trying to keep positive.

 

[Nambroth]

I understand your frustration and despair. There are a number of us with it in our flocks (the truly frustrating thing is that even perfect biosecurity can't keep it from coming in on the environment even!), and I don't know about the others but I take some small comfort in having a "Marek's Sister/Brotherhood" with them. We tend to chat over on this thread: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/741957/not-an-emergency-mareks-in-the-flock

 

[chooks4life]

Thanks for the replies. I did use Hypercium on the two pullets but really didn't see an improvement and did not want them to suffer through a prolonged dosing experiment. I will read through the link of other herbs to see if I have any on hand. I do have oxine and a fogger that I was going to use with the activated solution and clean my garage, crates, waters and grounds in the hopes of killing the virus. I read that activated oxine is one of the few things that will. Hopefully it will make a difference. This has been such a heartbreaking disease. I know one of my 3 mos babies must have been exposed because she had ran into the garage and was pecking the food off the beak of one of the quarantined pullets the 2nd day I brought them home. That little baby thinks she runs the place always escaping. I was mortified when I found out and this was before I realized how truly sick the quarantined birds were.

she became sick the next day but I gave her some poly visol and greens and she bounced back within 24 hours. Now I can only imagine my whole flock has been exposed. It's a waiting game and I'm trying to keep positive.

Sorry to hear it. I have had a few cases of Marek's but the rest are fine, though they may be carriers, so out of many hundreds two or three cases isn't terrible. Not that the individual case are happy things to deal with of course.

As Nambroth noted, biosecurity won't save you here, and personally I am a believer in the logic of exposing flocks like mine to every normal disease going around and allowing the fittest to survive. I keep mongrels, breed for vigor and disease resistance among other traits geared towards coping on more natural diets and in more natural environments, and practicing the 'boy-in-a-bubble' security approach only ever means that sooner or later, along comes the big one that wipes out your flock. To my way of thinking, anyway. I think the survivors whose immune systems coped with the disease will eventually be those to give rise to immune animals, though it may take generations. This has happened with other 'incurable' diseases in other animals too, it's not an unreasonable assumption. It helps to adhere to the old maxim 'first do no harm' so I keep my animals as naturally as possible to give their immune systems both the best chance and some exercise, because an overprotected and propped-up immune system is a weak immune system.

The majority of my birds have always been superfluously healthy and while I don't discount the need for biosecurity, I believe it's being practiced in a way that is mostly likely to be terminal and sooner or later the less protected mongrel flocks out there, like mine, will possibly be all that is left to carry on the species in domesticity. Possibly even in the wild, too, given that the worst diseases tend to spread out into the wild remnants of our domesticated species, who have no defenses against most of these adapted and strengthened diseases which have been battling our attempts at eradication, so have strong 'immune systems' of their own.

Regarding Hypericum, there are a few brands that are worthless, Nature's Own and Hilda's Herbs being among them, and a few different species of Hypericum. The one you need is Hypericum Perforatum and it needs to be in the right form, i.e. those brands I just slandered are known to irradiate all their herbs or just use the poorer quality sources or methods of processing; some of them do not even ensure they are using the right plant! Their herbs are worth garden fertilizer value and nothing else. Nature's Own is more useful than Hilda's Herbs though but poor quality overall.

Blackmores' and a few other brands, while more expensive, are high quality and their herbs are clinically tested to ensure they will do what they claim to. Many other brands just use any herb, from any source, not tested, just riding on the coattails of brands like Blackmores' --- some of these cheaper brands will not even ensure they are using the correct species, which becomes a serious issue when you have, for example, many herbs using the same common name, some of which are useless and some of which are dangerous, and only one or two of which are beneficial. Many herbs known by the same common name are not even of the same species.

Some herbs are only of medicinal use if you use the right part, in the right form, at the right time of the plant's life and sometimes at the right time/stage of the diseases' life. Roots, bark, flowers, leaves, etc ---- and many of them must only be used at a certain time in the plant's life to be beneficial, i.e. Valerian roots over two years old were what the Native Americans and farmers used for epileptic fits, but modern brands use the leaves or seedheads.

To get proper results from herbs you need to get some good books by actual authorities on them, and quite often the authors touting themselves as authorities are merely well-read but incompletely learned students of the lore themselves. Nobody's knowledge is complete.

Best wishes with your endeavor. Sooner or later, someone who experiments will find the cure, and it looks to me like Marek's days are numbered, at least in its current form.

 

[Aerielle]

Thanks for the input. I have the Boiron brand at 200ck, but I'll wait and see how my flock does. I know what you mean about biosecurity, I have no choice but to close my flock for several months and see what happens. I was about to sell some of my birds too. :/ not anymore. Hopefully they have built up an immunity. I want to call up and scream at the breeder, whom I have already discussed this with. He is a larger breeder who worked in the USDA for a number of years who practices a severe biosecurity of concrete floors and tunnels (I found out later). Who admitted to having a MD issue in the past but continues selling. If chickens can't be chickens, and scratch in the dirt and dust bath how will they ever build an immunity? I can only hope I gave those 2 little birds a chance to die in the grass and sunshine, under trees and being loved.

 

[chooks4life]

Thanks for the input. I have the Boiron brand at 200ck, but I'll wait and see how my flock does. I know what you mean about biosecurity, I have no choice but to close my flock for several months and see what happens. I was about to sell some of my birds too.

not anymore. Hopefully they have built up an immunity. I want to call up and scream at the breeder, whom I have already discussed this with. He is a larger breeder who worked in the USDA for a number of years who practices a severe biosecurity of concrete floors and tunnels (I found out later). Who admitted to having a MD issue in the past but continues selling. If chickens can't be chickens, and scratch in the dirt and dust bath how will they ever build an immunity? I can only hope I gave those 2 little birds a chance to die in the grass and sunshine, under trees and being loved.

Amen to that!

Best wishes with your battle, however you tackle it.