Help With Broiler Food?

[TWOandEIGHT]

Hey Everyone,

I really hoping someone will be able to help me, I've kept chickens for many years but my friend has come to me asking if I could give her some pointers. She's a dog and cat nutritionist, but has been asked if she could comment on the composition of a broiler starter food. the composition is:

Ingredients, g/kg ​
Maize​	353.7​
Wheat​	182.0​
Soybean meal​	360.0​
Soybean oil​	47.0​
Dicalcium phosphate​	28.0​
Limestone​	19.0​
DL- Methionine​	2.2​
L-Lysine​	5.0​
Sodium bicarbonate - NaHCO3​	3.0​
Phytase​	0.1​

Digestible Nutrients & Energy​	​	Amino acids, g/kg​
Protein, g/kg​	226.20​	​	Arg​	13.27​
AME, MJ/kg​	12.50​	​	Ile​	8.26​
Ca, g/kg​	13.40​	​	Leu​	15.81​
Total P, g/kg​	10.10​	​	Lys​	14.50​
Available P, g/kg​	7.45​	​	Met​	5.12​
Na​	0.93​	​	Cys​	3.08​
K​	9.47​	​	Thr​	7.23​
Cl​	0.70​	​	Trp​	3.16​
​	​	​	Val​	8.99​

Would anyone be able to tell me what the main role for each of the ingredients are, also if there's any formulation issues with this diet and if there are how to correct them.

Thank you ever-so-much for your help, it would be lovely to give her some pointers.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Not enough sodium- should be .12 to .2%. If NaCl then .4-.6%. Essential vitamins and minerals are added to mix, I'm not seeing that in ingredients.

I'm not a nutritionist nor do I mix my own feed.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

That's Broiler feed? I mean sure, the protein looks good, which you would expect for a broiler, but I'm not understanding the calcium levels, and at a glance, I'd suspect you aren't in the US. Dicalcium phosphate is rarely used here, due to our ready supply of oyster shell.

OK, understanding that I am NOT a nutritionist (animal or otherwise) by training, and have nothing more than some month's reading to guide me...

Maize ("corn" in the US) is a low cost, low value filler used to bulk out chicken feed and provide quick energy. Its not a good source of protein (typically less than 10%, potentially as low as 8%), has accceptable levels of fiber, and is only a little high on fat. But it is very "middle of the road", in that its deficiencies are relatively easy to work around by supplimenting with ingredients high in individual feed values. Its amino acid profile is also sub-par, but works well with common complimentary ingredients. In short, its "filler", but its valuable filler in that it buffers more nutrient dense ingredients.

Wheat is a high value (and higher cost) grain, which can be either a low protein "soft" wheat or a higher protein "hard" (often called winter, sometimes "durum", sometimes "red") wheat. Even the low protein wheat has better protein than corn, and both varieties have a superior amino acid profile, across the board, to corn (which you sort of suspect, given corn's lower protein). "Hard" wheat brings about 50% more methionine, and about 30% more lysine, threonine, and tryptophan than soft wheat per kg - the four most common limiting amino acids for poultry, though its generally below target in each of the four. Both varieties of wheat tend to be a bit low in both fiber and fat.

Soybean meal is a common legume, meaning reasonably priced, which provides both a highly concentrated protein source AND one of the best amino acid profiles in the plant world. Soybean meal is often north of 44% protein and one of the best plant sources for methionine, lysine, and threonine - which is why its commonly found in feeds. Unfortunately, all legumes have some anti-nutritional factors, but the heat treatment used in processing the meal tends to correct many of those. For reference, soybean meal typically contains about 250% the methionine, 500-700% the lysine, 400-500% the threonine, and about 300-400% the tryptophan of an equal weight of wheat.

Soybean oil, in studies, has been shown to consistently aid in weight gain and deposit of of fat in chickens (though its effects become less pronounced as the AME of the feed increases). In one study, adding 30g/kg soybean oil to a 12 MJ/kg diet mproved weight gain about 7%, but less than 4% when added to a 13 MJ/kg AME diet. Its here primarily to bulk up the bird.

Dicalcium Phosphate is a common source of both calcium and phosphate outside the US. Here, its expensive relative to our readily available oyster shell. Target for broilers *SHOULD* be around 1% calcium +/-, with roughly half that amount as DIGESTIBLE phoshorus. In studies, calcium toxicity on broilers, and partuclarly roosters, was lower in birds fed CaHPO4 than those fed an oyster shell equivalent, CaCO3 - likely due to the increase in non-phytate phosphorus.

Limestone is essentially compressed sea shells, largely calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in various forms, argonite and dolomite most typically, plus lots of trace minerals. I'm at an absolute loss as to why its included here, given that the target calcium needs of growing birds has already been met by the CaHPO4 above. If its for the trace minerals, there are better ways of obtaining those (here in the US, at least)...

DL-Methionine and L-Lysine are both synthetically produced amino acids. They are added here because, even with the soybean meal, the levels present in the feed aren't sufficient to meet the optimum nutritional needs of fast-growing breeds like a Cx and similar broilers. Here in the US, the amounts that can be added are limited, unsure what laws are applicable to you.

Our National Resources Conservation Service used top recommend broilers in their first weeks of life (doing some conversion here to translate into yourmeasurement system) recieve 23% protein, 5g/kg Methionine, 11g/kg Lysine, 8g/kg Threonine, 2g/kg Tryptophan (there are others, but if you hit those four, its almost certain you hit targets for the rest, while missing any of those four will stunt growth more than deficiencies in some of the others - these are particularly key for muscle, joint, skin, intestines, and feather development...)

You happen to be below our recommended protein, but above our recommended amino acid levels - that's quite common in the EU, where high protein crops are expensive, and more recent research (last two decades +/-) has shown great promise in reduced protein feeds supplimented with critical amino acids. (We have more cropland, its cheaper for us to provide more protein of lower amino acid profiles generally, than lower amounts of protein of superior AA profile).

Phytase is an enzyme which helps make phytate phosphorus (that is, plant-based phosphorus) digestible by chickens, otherwise its almost useless to them. Since this formula already contains mineral (non-phytate) dicalcium phosphate, I'm again wondering why its inclusion is needed, except perhaps in an abundance of caution, to ensure the plant (corn, soy, wheat) sources are more effectively used.

@Egghead_Jr 's comments on sodium are spot on, I won't repeat them.

Anyhow, that's my amateur view based on a glance at the ingredients - hope it helps, don't think I skipped any?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Oh, I see I skipped the sodium bicarb (baking soda) - besides providing a sodium source, at levels between 2-3%, it has a mild effect as a coccidiastat (apparently by altering the pH of the digestive system to make it less hospitable to the coccidia) which helps with disease management, and ultimately, weight gain. Here in the US, we use amprolium rather routinely, a thiamine antagonist. Much more effective.

 

[aart]

@ChickenCanoe might have some input.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I admit, some feedback from the OP would be appreciated. I know they dropped into BYC once more, and viewed this thread after Aart had posted, but no comments, no reactions, no new posts, nothing... Our efforts feel wasted somehow.

Am I being overly sensitive to the seeming waste of my time?

 

[aart]

Our efforts feel wasted somehow.

Am I being overly sensitive to the seeming waste of my time?

I'd not take it too seriously.......not all are as active on forums.

They also may be conferring with their friend.

but my friend has come to me asking if I could give her some pointers

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I will take your advice. I'm tired, and out of sorts. Will pretend at patience while it rains.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Am I being overly sensitive to the seeming waste of my time?

I think you are being a bit impatient. It's only been a couple of days and they had to send the responses to their friend since she was the once that asked the questions. A thank you would be nice but she may have no follow-up questions, I though that was a great response from you and others. I think you are right about it being in a different time zone which could add to response time. And it's a weekend, Friday may be pub night.

I don't see it as a total waste of time. A lot of people read these threads, you never know who else picked up something. I didn't know that about the amino acid profile in soybeans. And all the questions could have been answered on that type of question, there may be no follow up. The ones that bother me are the ones that ask for help but when we ask them specific questions so we can help them you never hear from them again.

 

[Torinik]

I don't see it as a total waste of time. A lot of people read these threads, you never know who else picked up something.

Certainly not a waste of time, I picked up a couple of things again. It's well written in human language that people with no background in this field can understand and take it from there if they want to dig deeper.

Don't beat yourself up, U_Stormcrow, your post will provide tons of people over years to come with valuable and easy to understand information.
For my part, thank you for the effort, it was well worth reading.