HELP with Diagnosis! Swollen abdomens and messy butts...

[TXChixRock]

HELP! Background: flock of 11, aged 11 to 4 years. All wormed in January. 4 hens have swollen abdomens, presenting with tails down and messy butts. All bathed in epson salt water to clean. All drinking adequately but eating less than normal. None are laying, 1 is too old to lay. 2 have very messy bottoms (the youngest and the oldest). I suspected vent greet or egg yolk peritonitis on the youngest one, but vent looks fine, feces looked very yellow. None of 4 seem egg bound. What could this be? My concern is it’s contagious since 4 out of the 11 seem affected. Any help would be appreciated...no vets available for chickens in my area.

 

[Thunder344]

Can you post pictures? That would help tremendously. I don't know much, but there are some others that can help you.
@Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock@Overo Mare
Also,
Separate the sick girls from the rest of the flock. As you said, it could be contagious.

 

[TXChixRock]

Home alone, so unable to get pictures other than poop pix. Will try to upload those. Youngest bird has watery white poop, older bird has watery green poop.

 

[Eggcessive]

At their ages some may be suffering from reproductive infections or egg yolk peritonitis, which is fairly common. I don’t see any yellow poops, but the dark green is a sign of not eating much. Yellow urates in poop can be from EYP or liver disease. You can soak their bottoms in warm soapy water to clean them up. Look for any missing feathera, raw skin or dripping from the vent which could be a sign of vent gleet. I have some old hens that have some of the symptoms above.

 

[TXChixRock]

I’ve cleaned everyone up and checked vents. None are red or raw or oozing. One did, however, have what looked like an empty egg membrane protruding from her vent, which I removed, so pretty sure she has EYP. The youngest we are culling today, as I believe she is suffering. My biggest concern was that since I had 4 out of 11 with messy bottoms that something contagious was going on. There are no upper respiratory symptoms in the other hens so can I safely assume this is reproduction based and not some contagious illness going around?

 

[AprilsZoo]

Although it does seem unlikely that multiple hens would be egg-bound all at the same time— it‘s not impossible. Did you feel inside for ?

• What do you feed? What do they get for snacks or treats, how much and how often? (be specific... some scratch, sometimes isn’t enough info)
• Do they have free access to oyster shell? If so, is it being eaten?
• What is the age of each affected hen? It’s unclear if the oldest affected hen is also the oldest in your flock...
• Do you know when any of the 3 who do, last laid?
• Is anyone molting? Or due to molt? Or recently come out of a molt?
• Any weird eggs in the past few weeks?
• Are their swollen abdomens very firm?
• Are they penguin-walking? Or just hunkered-down not really moving at all?
• Why did you worm them? Did you see worms? What kind?
• What did you use to worm them? Did you re-treat 3 weeks after the initial worming? Does your area have any known resistance to certain wormers?
  

If the oldest affected hen is 11, I kinda suspect that her issues might be different than the other 3. Particularly since her droppings are notably different. Past laying age a hen’s risk for cancer goes way up.

If you feel comfortable trying to “tap” their bellies, to see if any fluid (acites) is present, that would give you information not really available otherwise. I would start with the oldest girl. If she has ascites, then it’s almost certainly cancer. Unfortunately, it would likely be kindest to cull her if that’s the case.

For the others, if they’ve stopped laying since this started, I’d suspect an infection. You can try tapping their bellies too, but if they have an infection, what is inside might be too thick to be easily drained.

After a bath, try giving a sniff near their vent (but out of the line of fire, lol) If there is a strong foul odor, try to think about whether it smells “rotten” or “yeasty” or something else entirely.

Answer the above, try to get pix of each of your girls, and I know you’ll have lots of help getting to the bottom of what’s going on in your flock.

 

[AprilsZoo]

I’ve cleaned everyone up and checked vents. None are red or raw or oozing. One did, however, have what looked like an empty egg membrane protruding from her vent, which I removed, so pretty sure she has EYP. The youngest we are culling today, as I believe she is suffering. My biggest concern was that since I had 4 out of 11 with messy bottoms that something contagious was going on. There are no upper respiratory symptoms in the other hens so can I safely assume this is reproduction based and not some contagious illness going around?

I don’t think you can make that leap yet.

The hen who had the membrane... you should give her some calcium ASAP.
You can use human calcium tablets. Caltrate with D3 is the easiest type to absorb (Calcium citrate)... Generic equivalent is fine. Give one whole tab today, and 1/2 tab every day for the next 3 days, or until you see her lay a normal shelled egg. If you don’t have that, you can use Tums (yes, the antacid)... [2 Tums today, 1 every day etc, as above.]

As for the girl you plan to cull. If she’s suffering that badly, its probably a good, if sad, decision.

Is there any chance you’d feel comfortable doing a necropsy after she’s euthanized? Athough it might be difficult, it would give you important information that could help you treat the others. If she is eggbound, then you can assume there’s a calcium deficiency, in at least the ones who are sick, and maybe in the whole flock. If she’s full of infection, you’ll know you need to treat the others. Or you might find something else, or nothing else, helpful.

 

[TXChixRock]

Gave the hen with the membrane calcium tab as soon as she came out of the bath. Just as a note, I’ve had chickens for 15 years so have the basics down pretty well. Have had hens with impacted crops, worms, fly strike, EYP, and egg bound over the years. I’ve never had 4 hens sick at the same time, though. I realize they’re an older flock so I should expect more issues going forward.
To answer some of the questions from above:

• Feed is H&H organic layer, same feed for 2 years. Treats consist of chopped kale or other greens a couple times a week. Small amount of scratch only when temps to drop below 32. Fruits & veggies (frozen) in summer when temps above 90.
• NOTE: temps here in south TX dipped into single digits and teens for a week; normally in the 30’s with occasional mid 20s. Single comb br. Leghorn got frostbite on comb. She‘s one of the ones with messy butt. Lays 1 dozen eggs about twice a year so non-egg layer
• Supplement with oyster shell. Never let it run out. They eat quite a bit, but cannot verify if they all are. Chickens are free range on 1 acre.
• Ages of chickens affected: 10+ (Leghorn, who lays less than 2 dozen a year), two 4 year olds (Ameraucana & Barred Rock-the membrane in the vent hen) and the youngest 3.5 yrs (Araucana - we culled her today)
• 9 out of 11 of my hens all molted in August so egg laying went to almost zero for several months. Never had so many molt at the same time. Only 1 hard molt, and she’s a non-layer.
• 2 of the messy butt girls are currently laying, 1 is the non-laying leghorn and the culled hen at 3.5 yrs had not laid since her molt.
• the abdomen on the girl we culled today was squishy, not firm. Not egg bound...couldn’t feel an egg on internal exam. Very distended. Considered draining ascites but she seemed too far gone, hunkered down, not moving and labored breathing.
• abdomens on other 3 soft and squishy as well. Much less fluid retention and will drain if necessary. All 3 eating and free ranging, come when called & alert, not penguin walking. One with tail not held as high, but not drooping too much. All vents look good, not red and not smelly. None have lost their feathers in vent area or abdomen.
• wormed with Valbazen as part of semi-annual worming protocol. Standard 2 rounds given. (Had 1 chicken diagnosed with roundworms 2 years ago and was advised to start worming program. No evidence of worms present since then.)
• also should mention, in Dec had to cull another hen also with ascites but no messy but. This was a 4 yr production red with severe ascites.
• no evidence of respiratory issues, no blood in stool, no mites, no changes of diet or added stress (other than the wicked cold they were unaccustomed to). Hygiene is good, 2 coops 8x8 cleaned thoroughly weekly, waterers cleaned daily
• have had large flock of migrating cedar wax wings in our yard (I swear there must be 100) as well as migrating robins. They’ve been here for several weeks. Could they have passed some avian something to the hens???

Sorry for the long response but I am still puzzled by this since there are 4 at the same time time (plus the one in Dec), with widely ranging ages, one a non-layer. Currently adding ACV to their drinking water and will start giving them some yogurt. Also read on BYC about supplementing with milk thistle extract, so looking into that. Any ideas appreciated.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

If all are around the same age, then likely it is not contagious. Reproductive disorders are common in laying hens.

Since you are going to cull the one that is not well, it would be good to either send the body to your state lab for necropsy or if you are up to it, perform an informal one yourself. Often you can figure out what's going on by taking a look inside. It's education and can ease your mind a bit.
Take photos and we'll try to help you with what you see.

 

[AprilsZoo]

No worries about length of your response. that was helpful. It’s also good to know you are an experienced chicken person. Your chicken husbandry must be awesome to have multiple elderly hens & so few problems before now!

I’m sorry you had to euthanize one of your girls.

Were you able to do a necropsy? I really think that despite the extra details you gave, it may come down to directly visualizing the internal organs. As Wyorp mentioned, if you prefer you could go the route of sending a bird to the State Lab for necropsy.

You could try starting them on antibiotics, and giving those who should be laying extra calcium for a few days.

Draining any possible ascites can help in a few ways— #1, You’ll determine whether it is simple ascites or not. #2, If it recurs, you’ll have a timeframe for how fast it happens. #3, You may give them a little relief until the antibiotics can work, if they work.

Maybe someone else will have other ideas after reading the rest of the details you provided.