Help with Svart Hona Genetics

[Kindercare]

All,

I am trying to figure out the genetics of my Svart Hona rooster. The only other breed I keep are Buff Orpingtons, so I let a broody hatch a clutch of Svart roo x Buff hen chicks.

I got 4 chicks (photos below). Two are now starting to feather out and I am trying to figure out the genetics. Anyone an expert in feather pattern that could weigh in?

Chick #1



Chick #2 (died or was rejected early on). Same pattern as chick #1 but with light colored legs instead of black


Chicks #3 and #4 both look like this:


Here they are starting to feather out:




Here is my thinking on genetics so far:

Svart roo:
E/e+, S/S. Fm/Fm, i+/i+, id+/id+

And my buffs are:
e^Wh/e+?, Co/Co, Db/Db, Di/Di, Mh/Mh, s+/-, I/I+ (het dominant white), and Id/- (caused the light colored legs on the chick that died?)

But what is the patterning on the feathers on both the grey and white chicks?

The white chick has some kind of zig-zag barring with white feather tips. The grey chick has grey tips with tiny dots further up the feather and white tips on the neck/back feathers (hard to see in the picture). That must mean that my Svart roo has patterning under his all black feathers. My understanding is that buff orpingtons don't carry pattern genes. Any guesses?

More info on this thread on Svart / Buff crosses:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1032117/svart-hona-x-buff-orpington/20

Thanks!

 

[Kindercare]

After more research, it seems like the following might be the answer. Interestingly, this creates sex-link chicks where males with white down have light colored legs and females have dark legs.


Svart roo:
E/e+, co+/co+, Ml/Ml, Pg/Pg, db+/db+, di+/di+, mh+/mh+, S/S. Fm/Fm, i+/i+, id+/id+

And my buffs are:
e^Wh/e^wh, Co/Co, ml+/ml+, pg+/pg+, Db/Db, Di/Di, Mh/Mh, s+/-, fm+/fm+, and Id/-

 

[Kindercare]

After watching these chick grow out, I've decided that Svart Honas are more likely to be Birchen (E^R) based than E (extended black based)

Here is my revised genetics guess:

My svart roo:
E^R/e+, co+/co+, Ml/Ml, Pg/Pg (or Pg/pg+ or even pg+/pg+), db+/db+, di+/di+, mh+/mh+, S/S. Fm/Fm, i+/i+, id+/id+

And my buffs::
e^Wh/e^wh, Co/Co, ml+/ml+, pg+/pg+, Db/Db, Di/Di, Mh/Mh, s+/-, fm+/fm+, and Id/-

Here are the cross pictures @ 6 weeks:

E^R / eWh


e+ / eWh

 

[Peaches Lee]

Amazing!

 

[suntonova]

Thanks for all the detail¡

 

[Kindercare]

You are welcome! I've done a few more crosses with various Svart roos and hens and they all seem to be roughly as follows:

E^R/E^R (sometimes a recessive e^b), co+/co+, Ml/Ml (sometimes ML/ml), Pg/Pg (or Pg/pg+ or even pg+/pg+), db+/db+, di+/di+, mh+/mh+, S/S. Fm/Fm, i+/i+, id+/id+

 

[suntonova]

You are welcome! I've done a few more crosses with various Svart roos and hens and they all seem to be roughly as follows:

E^R/E^R (sometimes a recessive e^b), co+/co+, Ml/Ml (sometimes ML/ml), Pg/Pg (or Pg/pg+ or even pg+/pg+), db+/db+, di+/di+, mh+/mh+, S/S. Fm/Fm, i+/i+, id+/id+

What resources did you use for learning the genetics? I've been looking for reference books, but have found surprisingly little.

 

[Kindercare]

These are my favorites:
Chicken Genetics Calculator - http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingCQ.html
Poultry Genetics for the Non-professional - http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page0.html
Poultry Mutations List - http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html
Chicken Genetics Made Almost Simple - http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2013/01/blue-genes-chicken-genetics-made-almost.html
Genetics of the Fowl - https://books.google.com/books?id=x...6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=chicken genetics&f=false

 

[suntonova]

These are my favorites:
Chicken Genetics Calculator - http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingCQ.html
Poultry Genetics for the Non-professional - http://sellers.kippenjungle.nl/page0.html
Poultry Mutations List - http://www.edelras.nl/chickengenetics/mutations1.html
Chicken Genetics Made Almost Simple - http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2013/01/blue-genes-chicken-genetics-made-almost.html
Genetics of the Fowl - https://books.google.com/books?id=xE25CwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=chicken+genetics&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU6I2Q2oXXAhWCRyYKHdyyDzcQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=chicken genetics&f=false

Wow! That's a wealth of information. :-D

 

[nicalandia]

All,

I am trying to figure out the genetics of my Svart Hona rooster.

Chick #2 (died or was rejected early on). Same pattern as chick #1 but with light colored legs instead of black

Here is my thinking on genetics so far:

Svart roo:
E/e+, S/S. Fm/Fm, i+/i+, id+/id+

And my buffs are:
e^Wh/e+?, Co/Co, Db/Db, Di/Di, Mh/Mh, s+/-, I/I+ (het dominant white), and Id/- (caused the light colored legs on the chick that died?)

You created a sex linked cross, the chick that died was a rooster that was Fm/fm+ Id/id+(Dominant Sex linked Dermal Inhibitor Id from Dame and recessive sex linked dermal enhancer id+ from Svart rooster)

And while id+ vs Id cant be used reliably as sex links on regular chickens, it becomes about the most potent and powerful sexlink combination with used with a Homozygous Melanotic rooster(black skin) over white/yellow skin hens, so powerful to the point that you can sex them the moment the hatch(Autosexing and sexlinks chicks would need to be fully dried to make the sexing, but on this cross you can sex them just by looking at their skin, cockerels will have clear/white/yellow skin and Pullets will have it dark/black)