Hens dying off - unknown cause

[TmnAmbr]

threehorses - thank you also for your time. The chickens have a wood house and a fenced run, dirt in the run and straw in the house on top of dirt floor - so yes, you would be correct in your assumptions. The birds are now 5 months old and they look full grown, the 2 roosters are crowing (still sound a tad croaky due to their youth but getting better The hens are not yet laying. We switched to layer in the last couple weeks, before that hubby says he was buying "scratch" and "grower" alternately and mixing them in the container. We keep our feed in a large rubbermaid, he says that there was a point when moisture got into it and he dumped out all that he could see was bad and salvaged what he could, that was several weeks ago when we had tons of rain. Maybe he should have dumped it all. I cannot recall if that was before we had lost any of the hens or not. The house has since been cleaned out and fresh bedding put down. I have pyrethrin mixed with DE for my garden, would that be useable for the chickens/house? I will check out their weight and other items more in the morning and report back with anything suspicious. Thanks again!

 

[threehorses]

Thanks for the quick reply. I would say that the bad feed can be part of this. The thing is for every bit of bad you see, there are spores that you can't see. So when feed goes bad like that, it's best just to scrap the whole lot, clean out the container (vacuum it if yours holds 300lbs like mine), wipe the interior with white vinegar and let that dry. The vinegar helps to kill the mildew spores without effecting anything. It's safe. Then replace the feed with new feed.

So it's possible, particularly as there was corn in there, that they're experiencing one of a number of things. First, some remaining mycotoxicosis and/or the oil-vitamin deficiencies that come from that. In addition to that, using scratch as a feed probably decreased their nutrition. So the cumulative effects of both could very well result in illness and death. Birds are particularly adept at hiding illness until it's very bad as that's what keeps them safe. Another potential issue is aflatoxicosis from the corn in the scratch. It's basically about the same as basic mycotoxicosis (from various fungi).

The toxins don't leave their body easily, and they can cause organ issues, increased susceptibility to heat stress (and death), paralysis, vitamin deficiencies, calcium absorbtion inhibition, etc.

So as we dont' really know what's going on, I'd take the conservative approach. First, I'd consider replacing the feed you have if you're low. At the least, when it's time to get new feed do the vinegar wipe of the feeder. If you can, keep the rubbermaid container lifted off the ground on a pallet or something. Then I'd add activated feed type charcoal to the feed of your birds as a supplement for a while. It doesn't take much, but it's a good method of helping in non-specific toxicosis.

Specifically for mycotoxins and aflatoxins, you want to supplement all birds for oil vitamins, minerals (particularly selenium of a certain type and certain amount), fats and proteins. You will want to treat your whole flock.

One easy way of doing this would be to use fortified wheat germ oil (read the label, it's available at TSC and some feedstores that cater to horses/cattle) in a spray bottle and spray it on top of the feed immediately when served. I would do this daily for 1 weeks and then taper off for a week. Then you can just use it as needed as a healthy ADE supplement. On the week that you taper off, use a total vitamin/mineral supplement in their water on the alternate days. Then use weekly for 2 weeks.

I would give all of your birds a one time treatment with vitamin E/selenium. Use only a human supplement for this. E can be somewhere between 400-700 IU oil capsule. Selenium needs to be less than 50 micrograms per capsule or tablet. (Micrograms are denoted as ug or mcg, not mg). If it's a combination and oil capsule, that's your best bet. But if it's a tablet, that's ok. There's a commonly made vitamin that is 400 IU E/50 mcg Sel. Again use only one time, half of that for chicks.
For the rest of the week, use a regular 400-700 IU vitamin E oil capsule. Slit the end of the capsule, give 2 drops to the full capsule depending on the size of the bird.

So again for the whole flock: Fortified wheat germ oil sprayed on the feed daily for one week, every other day for a second week.
Vitamins/minerals in the water on the 2nd week on the days where you don't give the wheat germ oil.
A one time in-the-beak treatment with vitamin E/selenium for all birds.


For any acutely ill birds, I'd do all of the above as well, repeating the E/selenium if they become ill but only once. For the rest of the week I'd use a straight vitamin E capsule, from 2 drops to the entire contents of one capsule in the beak daily for a week and then taper off. I'd add yogurt during the week, and make sure they're on complete feed - no grains. If they don't eat much, I'd use polyvisol vitamins 3 drops in the beak daily in stead of the wheat germ oil.

This will not hurt any birds that aren't sick, will boost immune systems. This is the treatment for any time you see anything that you suspect to be neurological, note.


On your pyrethrin, I personally prefer permethrins as I'm aware of their safety when used with poultry. If the dust you're using is labeled for poultry bedding, then you could use it. Avoid Sevin. DE is fine -IF AND ONLY IF you use human food grade. Use sparingly.

Added: Just wanted to add that we're still looking for other things. But we want to treat to rule this out since the treatment is effective for other birds as well. Still need to know droppings, weights, rule out parasites, etc etc.

 

[LynneP]

I was frustrated with conventional waterers too. Even when elevated the lip seemed contaminated and changing the water of that style was a hassle, even though I had spares. In the summer I keep a low rubber livestock bowl filled in the run and it greatly reduces contamination indoors. In winter I switch to an electric dog bowl indoors, elevated on cinder blocks and a patio block to 1 foot off the ground. It's also good for the hens to dull their nails and self-trim their beaks on the concrete. It's easy to tip out into a catch bucket and wipe/refill with water and apple cider vinegar ( 1 Tbsp per gallon, roughly). ACV is also an anti-bacterial. We're on well water, filtered to exclude most iron, and I think if there were a problem with yours you'd note a problem in the family. But, acidic water like that coming up from slate, like ours, should never be served in metal waterers, I'm careful about that. You'll solve this!

About the feed- ask your supplier if it contains food-grade diatomaceous earth. If it doesn't you can add a small amount at the base of the feed bin to keep the feed ultra-dry and prevent contamination. But as threehorses says, it is probably the feed that got them- birds are so sensitive to spores.