HERE is where we are going to talk about a sustainable meat bird flock

[Cindiloohoo]

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I think that is key too. We have to get rid of the expectation and desire for the commercial type bird that we have been "forced" to "love".
It does go hand in hand with my passion for real Traditional foods.

I have to agree here. I'm looking for a bird that's meaty, but I don't expect a Godzilla chicken on my table...nor do I want one.

I also want something that is feed efficient. I don't want to pay $10 for a 3lb bird. So I'm looking for something in the middle myself.

 

[BirchHatchery]

i raise leghorn roosters by the 100s for meat i feed full access of broiler feed i butcher them at 20 weeks of age use them for Friers!!! cut em up for dumplims tacoes salads things like that. they are the cheapiest breed to raise rather for meat or for eggs i also free range when the weather good they make the best freiers i have ever eaten no fat good flavor. people eat quail people eat pheasent a leghorn roo has about much meat as a pheasent does farms around here raise pheasants buy the 1000s ive seen em cut up next to my leghorns their bigger so i dont see the issue when people say little meat on them so Economiccaly yes they make sense Economically yes i do make profit on them its the only chicken the bars in town use !!! any chicken can be eatin from a banty to pigions so yes their worth your time i get mine for 10 cents each (day olds total cost come 20 weeks of age around 1.20-2 dollars purdy cheap for 2-3 lbs of home grown meat. in the past thats the only chicken people used for Friers my grandfather supplied the bars in our small town with frog legs and leghorn cockerals and i am doin the same today. They may not have the meat of the cornish rock but the taste will be far supirior of one and alot less FAT! i raise white rock roos for my roasters grow em to 5 months

 

[Buster52]

Interesting perspective, BirchHatchery. I've never seen leghorns touted for their meat. I have raised and butchered some and didn't like that experience, but you make excellent points I had never considered. Thanks for that.

I'm glad someone is eating the roos. Otherwise they would just be killed and that's waste.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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Hey Jeff, how old were the buckeyes in that picture? Those are lovely birds.

16 weeks.... they are great birds. The ALBC has done a nice job with this line of Buckeyes.

 

[Davaroo]

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I tend to agree here, Buster.

The points made are good, one made before: people have been eating chickens for a long time. The standards and expectations of the culture, and the individual, have as much to do with "success" as anything.

The efficiency of the Mediterranean breeds is one you've mentioned before, in other threads. It is a great point, one that has to be weighed factored in. Personally, I prefer a larger dressed fowl than they offer, but that has trade offs in the amount of feed my larger birds consume.

In the end it comes down to what one can be happy with.

 

[CTChickenMom]

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I think having a DP that lays well, is reasonably broody, and still dresses out nice, is important. In order for each new generation to "renew", they need to be broody and raise their own chicks. Incubators are nice but I personally feel like I'm messing with Mother Nature. Hens that will raise their own kids also takes some of the work out of raising ones next meal. I'd like to get meat birds from a breeder of DP breeds, of what I haven't decided on yet.

I've started a chart to look at dual purpose breeds and meat breeds all together with attributes of each: broodiness with quantity of eggs per anum, skin color, feather coloring, temperment, breast size, and benefits of each. I'm using Henderson's Chicken chart to get some of my information. I don't know if this would be useful to anyone else but I like having all the information in front of me to help in deciding breeds to use. Egg production will be important to me as I don't want to have to spend money every spring and fall to raise a new crop for the freezer. I only want to spend money if my flock needs diversity which in turn will leave me more monies for pristeen parent stock. Genetics isn't my thing and confuses me greatly. I know what I can see and feel with my hands without needing to know which genes are recessive or dominant. What I do need are breeds with good temperment, broodiness, and a stocky build. Those things can all come from documented information on the breeds themselves.

I like the pic here of the 2 Buckeyes in the roasting pan, they had nice legs but the breast seemed kind of narrow. Maybe crossing them with a standard Cornish will get larger, taller chickens with strong legs and a wider breast. I like the though of making a DP even more DP by increasing the meat to bone ratio. For me that would mean finding a strain of what I'm looking for and getting it together with stock that needs improving. For me, time is not an issue. The best things come with time. I don't need a bird in 8 wks but some people do, that's okay. I would like something larger than 4-5 pounds dressed weight so mixing say.... a Buckeye (roo) and Java (hens), would give me the size, temperment, and broodiness I'd want to have. Hmmmm, that sounds like a good place to start...

Pulled that right out of my hat, I did! Now I just need to get them!

 

[CTChickenMom]

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I'm a big fan of the leg meat, safe the breast for sandwiches. Hmmm-mmmm! Looks like turkey legs!

 

[dancingbear]

Those are some fine looking Buckeyes, Jeff! I have 5, 3 pullets and 2 cockerels. They aren't as big as I'd hoped by now, they're about 5 1/2 months old. But they are looking good, very healthy and active.

They follow me around and peck my legs. Some people seem to think this means they are friendly. I think they know that I'm a source of food, and they're pecking me trying to make food fall out. I trip over them a lot, and try not to step on them. They hate to touched or picked up. The pullets, not so bad, but the males, (like most roos) squawk and scream bloody murder when I pick them up. Maybe they know that they're a PITA and destined to be eaten.

Daveroo, and others who mentioned this, I agree that most of us really don't need a monster table bird. We've just been conditioned to expect that. I wrote in another thread about how we've become conditioned to expect the biggest, fastest, mostest, of everything, at all times, and we've lost sight of the concept of enough. I don't need the most. Or the biggest. I just need enough. A roo that grows fast enough to be a reasonable size, young enough to be a tender fryer, that is healthy and forages well, and lives a long, healthy life, if I don't kill it. Some that make nice, big roasters, if I wait a while longer. Hens that lay enough eggs to eat, hatch, and some extra to sell. Hens that will brood, and be good moms. I don't care so much about the table qualities of the hens, as I don't replace mine every year. I haven't deliberately culled hens for meat, but when one dies by misadventure or something, and I'm there when it happens, so I know what happened and it's still fresh, I go ahead and dress them out. That happened twice this last week. It's not a frequent occurrence, but it seems to happens in sets of 2 or three, then no more for a long time. Sometimes I get a hen that just annoys me to no end, like the ones with what I call "the hysterical gene". They scream bloody murder every time I come near, like they just know I'm planning to kill them. (I know, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.) Those I usually cull by selling to somebody who doesn't mind if they're flighty and noisy.

Anyway, they don't need to set growth records, or laying records. I just need them to be a healthy, all-around utilitarian chickens. The ones I raise now are very tasty, and I'm learning new ways to cook older chickens, so that they don't all have to go into the crock pot, but are still tender and succulent. (That's right, Jeff, not dry and stringy at all!

It's amazing what you can do other than grill.) The last one I roasted, at 275, for about 4 hours, in a clay chicken cooker with a lid. It came out moist and tender, amazing flavor, the broth (I put about 2 cups of water in the bottom of the pan, to mix with the juices of the bird) made wonderful gravy. There was a lot more meat than I thought at first glance. The breast was kind of thin, but very long. Not much fat, but enough for good flavor.

Right now I'm getting a little over 2 dozen eggs a day. There are (aside from the death row roosters, and the breeding roo) 47 chickens. The 5 buckeyes are still young, pullets not laying yet, and I have at least another 10-12 pullets who are about point of lay, but haven't started yet. So let's say 30 birds that should be laying. Given they don't all lay daily, that's not bad. Yesterday I got 26 eggs, 24 the day before. My car's been down so I'm not getting into the city like I normally do. That means eggs are piling up, I don't have enough drop-in customers to sell to. I may have to take some eggs to the local battered women's shelter, that's what I do with my excess, if I can't sell them all, and don't currently have pigs to feed. I might boil a bunch to feed back to the chickens, though. (Hmmm...maybe I could make and freeze a bunch of quiche. That would be good!)

Anyway, my point is that when I get to sell my eggs, which I normally do, I make enough on them to pretty much pay for the feed, for all of the birds, not just the layers. So the only time the feed really costs me anything, is during molt, when they aren't laying. That usually last 2-3 months, during which they lay just enough that we have enough eggs for our own use. At that time, my DH always starts worrying that something's wrong, they're sick, we need to kill them all and start over, etc. He thinks we have a bunch of hens that aren't laying anymore. He thinks this every year.

Then egg production picks back up, everything goes back to normal, and the next thing you know, we're buried in eggs again. He calms down and is reassured. I get to quit defending the hens, and life is good.

In a few weeks, production will drop to about half, because half the hens will be broody, and be out on "maternity leave". But I'll still have plenty to sell, so that's alright.

 

[BirchHatchery]

that was my thinkin all the leghorn roos get killed asap in the hatcherys why not butcher em. i also have a laying flock of 30 hens and 5 roosters that cost me 1.20 a day to run that grain and electricty cost i sell eggs for 1.00 a dozen so i make money on them as well i sell butcherd leghorn roos for 6 dollars i only got 1.10-1.20 in them

 

[dancingbear]

I might get a wild hair and try that sometime, Birch H. How old when you butcher leghorns? I know I can order them cheap, if I ever want to do a big batch at once like you do. But not before we build a plucker, that's for sure.