High altitude meat birds dying

[highrockieschic]

Happens to the best of us. Do any of them still have pasty butt? Your coolest temp in your brooder should be at least 20 degrees cooler than your hot spot, in my experience. 80 as the "cool" area is still pretty warm for meaties.

No more pasty butt. Everyone looks good and active, but just had another die instantly this morning. I looked in to see all of them and they looked fine. I took the drinker to clean and refill, came back and found it dead.

I want to put them out in my garage, but I'm worried that more will die because my garage is not warm at all (like 30 degrees). I have the bottom of the brooder insulated with 2 inch blue foam board (covered with a tarp and large flake pine shavings), cardboard on the sides, and I plan on putting at least 2 heat lamps.

I'm really close to giving up and selling them to people in Denver (5600 feet in elevation rather than 10,000 feet like where I'm at).

It's so frustrating and so much work. I'm raising some of them for a friend. I'll have to discuss the situation with him.

 

[iwltfum]

That's good about the pasty butt. Sometimes once you get things to the right conditions, you will have a few residual die offs. Best to wait 48 hours to consider the results of any changes you might have made. I would consider giving them electrolytes/probiotics in their water and potentially some free choice grit (you could just go out and collect some gritty dirt) - to make sure they are digesting their feed properly. Some chicks starters dont have enough grit imo.. speaking of chick starter did you already mention the protein content of their feed? I remember it was local co feed but couldn't find the crude protein content if you mentioned it.

No more pasty butt. Everyone looks good and active, but just had another die instantly this morning. I looked in to see all of them and they looked fine. I took the drinker to clean and refill, came back and found it dead.

I want to put them out in my garage, but I'm worried that more will die because my garage is not warm at all (like 30 degrees). I have the bottom of the brooder insulated with 2 inch blue foam board (covered with a tarp and large flake pine shavings), cardboard on the sides, and I plan on putting at least 2 heat lamps.

I'm really close to giving up and selling them to people in Denver (5600 feet in elevation rather than 10,000 feet like where I'm at).

It's so frustrating and so much work. I'm raising some of them for a friend. I'll have to discuss the situation with him.

I used to live in the black hawk/rollinscille area near coal creek canyon. I feel like you must be close to there. Small world.

 

[iwltfum]

What percentage loss are you at right now?

 

[highrockieschic]

It sounds like you are doing everything possible, so sorry for your losses.
Cornishx birds are fragile, very sad little guys. I too have zero experience with high altitude meat bird raising, but much prefer the slower growing meat types rather then these.
Have you fixed the pasty butt issues, and adjusted for cooler temps at the cool end of each brooder?
The birds from the Freedom Ranger hatchery are great, although it's in Pennsylvania, so shipping might be a problem.
How about some birds from the local feed store? At least they will already be somewhat acclimated when you get them.
All the best, hope your chicks do okay from here.
Do restrict their meal time after they are about three weeks old, so more can survive to butchering isze.
Mary

If I do meat birds again I want to try the enhanced Delaware birds from McMurray. They are a heritage breed and are "high altitude tolerant" -their website says. So if we move somewhere lower we could breed them.

The local feed stores get chicks shipped from hatcheries. Most hatcheries are near sea level because hatch rates are better. Hatch rates where I live are super low, like 20-40%. I've had friends try to hatch their own eggs with no luck at all.

We are planning on moving to a lower elevation this year. Everything is just just too hard here. Winters are 9 months long. You have to have a good greenhouse to grow any food (like a $3000-$4000 one so it won't blow away or get crushed by the snow load). And meat birds don't reproduce. If an emergency happened and trucks couldn't get to us we would all starve.

Thanks for the input! I really appreciate it!

 

[Folly's place]

We love the Rockies, as visitors, not to live in all year...
Mary

 

[highrockieschic]

That's good about the pasty butt. Sometimes once you get things to the right conditions, you will have a few residual die offs. Best to wait 48 hours to consider the results of any changes you might have made. I would consider giving them electrolytes/probiotics in their water and potentially some free choice grit (you could just go out and collect some gritty dirt) - to make sure they are digesting their feed properly. Some chicks starters dont have enough grit imo.. speaking of chick starter did you already mention the protein content of their feed? I remember it was local co feed but couldn't find the crude protein content if you mentioned it.

I used to live in the black hawk/rollinscille area near coal creek canyon. I feel like you must be close to there. Small world.

The protein in the feed is 20%. I have Durastat in their water which has some salts in it along with natural herbs to fight off infections/illness. The Gro-gel had probiotics and I did put ACV in their water a couple times.

I really think the chicks are having heart attacks and strokes. Their little bodies can't handle the elevation and lack of oxygen.

I'm in Fairplay, South of Breckenridge. I've been in this area for 20 years. Had chickens here for 7 years (never was it this hard to keep any alive). I love how beautiful it is here, but the long winters are getting to be too much.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some chicks starters dont have enough grit imo..

Some??? Can you name one that does? There may actually be one but I'll get to that below.

That's a pretty common thought on here, that Starter has grit. I could not find grit listed as an ingredient on any Starter label I looked at. I e-mailed Purina a few years back and asked if they put grit in their Starter. They do not.

The way most standard chicken feed is made they gather all the ingredients and grind it all together. That is called "Mash". To make "Pellets" they mix mash with water to make a paste, extrude that through a die, and flash dry it. To make "Crumble" they partially crush the pellets. Since the feed has already been ground up and will return to a finely ground form when the digestive juices hit it they do not need grit to eat it. Their gizzard is strong enough to crush that previously ground stuff without grit. That's why you often see a statement that if all they eat is chicken feed they don't need grit. So why go to the expense to add grit when it is not needed.

This applies to what I call regular or standard chicken feed. Especially lately there are a lot of specialty feeds on the market in the US. Organic, whole-grain, Non-GMO, natural, no animal products content. Who knows what strange marvelous products might be marketed out there? I sure don't. With all this stuff being marketed these days I'm not as willing to make a blanket statement about "Chick Starter" as I used to be. It's quite possible that somebody is marketing something as a chick starter that does need grit for them to eat it. They may even be conscientious or honest enough to add grit to their feed. I don't know of any but it's possible.

There is always another aspect too. I'm not familiar with what is offered in other countries, let alone countries on other continents. I just don't know what might be offered in other places so again I'm reluctant to make some blanket statements.

The bottom line is to not expect an grit to be included in and chicken feed.

 

[iwltfum]

Right. I was more referring to the fact that chicken feeds have grit like substances in them as nutritive ingredients that are not necessarily listed as "grit" but act as grit in the digestive system. Mine do better with added grit from day one - less instances of sour crop and higher feed conversion rates. I've proven it in side-by-side tests and so have some other people. I only ever feed mash to meat birds, never pellets. I add grit directly to their feed after the third week. Absolutely true that blanketing any types of feeds across the board is generally better to check the tag and to know what your looking at when you read the tag.

 

[Folly's place]

Another thing; extra sodium is not helpful! Too many additives in their water? Herbs? What, exactly. Do they have plain fresh water to drink? Every substance that somebody on the internet recommends isn't necessary, or helpful.
Mary

 

[highrockieschic]

What percentage loss are you at right now?

I'm at almost 11% loss. I had 65, lost 7. I got reimbursed for 5 from the hatchery.