Homemade feed questions?

[Organic Acres]

If one is formulating their own feed without supplements or testing for nutrient density, there's a possibility that one or more of the 38 essential nutrients may be deficient or not in the proper balance. Though they may lay well or grow well, I surmise that deficiencies would be exposed in a closed flock where one is reproducing generations on that same feed.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pou...ltry/nutritional_requirements_of_poultry.html

This is really interesting. So, if I understand this theory correctly it means that it can take more than one generation for symptoms of certain nutritional deficiencies to manifest? For example, the mother lays well even though there is a phosphorous and sodium deficiency, but that deficiency causes her chicks to have a lower immunity o certain viruses, that kind of thing?

If so it would be really hard to identify or confirm. As it stands now, sometimes I have chickens that drop dead for no apparent reason, while her brothers and sisters all remain ok for years to come.

Generally,I just allow my flock to have access to various different rotating pastures and agricultural fields, on a rotational basis, so in addition to the feed I make for them they can forage for a lot of their own stuff. I firmly believe that this will more than make up for any specific deficiency that might occur in the feed. these chickens certainly eat better and get better access to a wider range of food than their wild counterparts, nonetheless their wild counterparts still thrive so I'm not too worried

note that I give them water soluble natural, additive free vitamin powder from time to time as well, but not very often.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

This is really interesting. So, if I understand this theory correctly it means that it can take more than one generation for symptoms of certain nutritional deficiencies to manifest? For example, the mother lays well even though there is a phosphorous and sodium deficiency, but that deficiency causes her chicks to have a lower immunity o certain viruses, that kind of thing?

If so it would be really hard to identify or confirm. As it stands now, sometimes I have chickens that drop dead for no apparent reason, while her brothers and sisters all remain ok for years to come.

Generally,I just allow my flock to have access to various different rotating pastures and agricultural fields, on a rotational basis, so in addition to the feed I make for them they can forage for a lot of their own stuff. I firmly believe that this will more than make up for any specific deficiency that might occur in the feed. these chickens certainly eat better and get better access to a wider range of food than their wild counterparts, nonetheless their wild counterparts still thrive so I'm not too worried

note that I give them water soluble natural, additive free vitamin powder from time to time as well, but not very often.

That's the way I look at it.
It's really hard to confirm. Just as with humans, nutritional deficiencies are complex and normally not just a single nutrient. So, in humans (and there's no reason to believe chickens or any other animal are different) there are usually multiple deficiencies that manifest themselves in complex ways.
A single vitamin or mineral that is completely missing will have immediate effects but one that is just low could take much longer to have an effect.
I just imagine that most who formulate their own feed don't have the means to test for nutrient density and I surmised that though a flock appears healthy, over generations of deficiencies, they would manifest in a breeder flock sooner than in any other.

I add a vitamin mix to the water once or twice a week too.
I also rotate pastures. But from late November to late March, that's pretty much useless. So I use a complete feed, fermented and free choice. (doctored for some with the fishmeal)

Another thing I might add is that "these aren't your grandmother's chickens".
In 1900, layers averaged well under 100 eggs a year.
In the 1920's it took 120 days to get a broiler to 2.2 lbs.. It took 5 lbs. of feed to get a pound of meat.
By the 1980's it took 50 days to get a broiler to 5 lbs. and only took 2 lbs. of food per pound of meat.
Broilers gained 8 grams a day in 1920 while they gain 50 grams a day today.

 

[Chris09]

Chris09

About the incubator, no, I don't drop the temperature of the incubator, I don't have the option to do that on the unit as I have just a very basic one without any bells or whistles. the booklet that came with the incubator states that I should 'expect a 60% hatch rate at best", so it sounds like your incubator is of a better quality than mine is.

Either way though, it still means that it's not nutritional, it's that my incubator is rubbishy.

Quote: NO No, I mean before you put the eggs in the incubator do you drop the temperature of the eggs?
What I do is, I collect the eggs then put them in a egg turner in a cool spot in my basement. The eggs are then cooled and turned for 24 hours before being put in the incubator.

Quote: I wouldn't say that, I have a cheap 10+ year old Little Giant Styrofoam incubator with a fan and turner and a homemade incubator made out of one of those dorm room freezers thats built similar to a GQF Sports man. In fact I got the heating unit, fan and a lot of the other parts from GQF.

 

[tnmommy]

I'm just curious, why don't you incubate and rear replacements? It is a lot of trouble, but you have control over the chicks,

 

[CrazyTalk]

Chris09

About the incubator, no, I don't drop the temperature of the incubator, I don't have the option to do that on the unit as I have just a very basic one without any bells or whistles. the booklet that came with the incubator states that I should 'expect a 60% hatch rate at best", so it sounds like your incubator is of a better quality than mine is.

Either way though, it still means that it's not nutritional, it's that my incubator is rubbishy.

Organic Acres, what brand/model are you using? That seems really poor. (people get high 80s with the cooler/lightbulb/water heater thermostat combos)


I've noticed that the poor hatches I have (usually because of some sort of incubator issue) also seem to have less vigorous birds - so most of your issues may be coming from the incubator.

 

[heatherbree]

What do you think is healthier, non organic homemade mix or organic pre mix from the feed store. After a lot of thought and research I have determined that for my flock I feel like a homemade soy free feed is the best. I have found several recipes I'm comfortable with but am just not able to find local grain to make it with. I really like Azure Standard but their closest drop is 3 hours away from me and I'm having a hard time putting together enough money to buy bulk of everything I would need. I do not want GMO grains. I wouldn't really care if it was organic as long as I was able to find a local source that wasn't gmo or totally doused with pestecides. As I mentioned I have not thus far been able to do so. So my question is, should I just buy feed store Monsanto sourced grains to make a mix of my choosing or buy organic that includes soy and who knows what other ingredients I may or may not want in my feed. I feel like it's a lose lose. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[barkinghills]

I think it is really hard (and potentially very expensive) to make a complete, homemade mix that is nutritionally complete and balanced, although I am sure it can be done for a price. Do you have the option of organic, soy-free complete feed such as Scratch and Peck? At least then you would have the convenience and reliability of a pre-made feed.

 

[CrazyTalk]

What do you think is healthier, non organic homemade mix or organic pre mix from the feed store. After a lot of thought and research I have determined that for my flock I feel like a homemade soy free feed is the best. I have found several recipes I'm comfortable with but am just not able to find local grain to make it with. I really like Azure Standard but their closest drop is 3 hours away from me and I'm having a hard time putting together enough money to buy bulk of everything I would need. I do not want GMO grains. I wouldn't really care if it was organic as long as I was able to find a local source that wasn't gmo or totally doused with pestecides. As I mentioned I have not thus far been able to do so. So my question is, should I just buy feed store Monsanto sourced grains to make a mix of my choosing or buy organic that includes soy and who knows what other ingredients I may or may not want in my feed. I feel like it's a lose lose.

Any help would be appreciated.

Any chicken feed you can buy in the store is going to be better for your birds than anything you can make at home without doing an awful lot of research, analysis, and testing, and owning a laboratory. Conventional chicken feed is really quite good.


Past that, you seem to be making decisions based on some sort of philisophical standard that I don't understand, rather than on the health of your animals, so I can't help you.

 

[heatherbree]

I'm sorry, maybe I posted on the wrong thread. I'm not looking to debate homemade feed. I'm looking for like minded people who choose to use a homemade mix and have an opinion on the question I asked. I do not appreciate being told the health of my animals isn't of importance to me simply because I'm looking for an economical sustainable more natural method to commercially produced feed.

 

[CrazyTalk]

Your question has been answered.

You asked what is healthier for your birds - that is a feed with lots of corn and soy in it, proper amino acid proportions, with a commercial vitamin premix, then pelletized so that the birds can't pick out what they like. If you can do that at home, then you can make a good homemade feed.

If you can't do that at home, then you are putting the health of your birds as second to your philosophical choices.