Horse Talk

[abigalerose]

Oh. I had just read something that said if you're doing something with a horse and they help keep another horse back for you that it's good, but next time I will push her out myself. It's so hard to decide what the right thing to do is sometimes, with so many different opinions from so many different people. I hate it when there's a bunch of different "right" ways to do something with horses, it makes learning pretty difficult since I have to decide which way to do things by myself. So anyways, if everyone agrees that I need to keep Penelope out of the way, and not June, then that's how I'll do it next time. I know her "bad" behavior isn't cute, although you're right I do feel bad for her sometimes given the life she's had so far, and I know I need to try and put that aside.
And as for weight gain, I know it will be slow getting her to where she needs to be, I was just pointing out that she's already made a little progress. I've had a lot of help from my grandpa figuring out what the right amount of feed is for her so we don't over do it, and I think she's on a good feeding schedule. The rescue actually didn't give me any advice on what to feed or how much. I asked them what they were feeding and they just told me hay, pasture, and grain. The rescue people are great, and they've done a lot of good for horses, but I do think they need to do a little more research on underweight horses (a lot of the horses they take in are still a healthy weight, or only a little skinny) because they weren't doing anything different for her diet than the other horses, and they were riding her. Only 15 minute rides, but they were so concerned about her building muscle, they said "she needs to gain weight but more importantly she needs to build muscle so we've been doing 15 minute rides on her" and I think that she needs to put on way more weight before anyone worries about building muscle, correct me if I'm wrong

 

[BridebelieverDD]

Wow it sounds like you have been REALLY busy lately! I don't have any advice or anything because I don't even have a horse but I LOVE hearing how Penelope is doing!

Good Luck!

 

[ChickenLover200]

 [COLOR=333333] while I was untacking her Penelope got too close (she was nudging her butt and chewing on the blanket) so June nipped her[/COLOR]

June was doing your job for you, and that's not fair to her. At 7 years old, Penelope is still young and clearly very insecure, so she may not know any better, but she should not be trying to interact with a horse that is being worked. June shouldn't have to choose between listening to you and dealing with another horse. I don't care if the horses are friends or not, when you are among them, their attention should be focused on you, not each other. What Penelope was doing wasn't cute or funny, it was potentially dangerous for you. That wasn't "super comfortable with everything," Penelope was testing the boundaries, and you should have corrected her by getting her out of your space (which in this case, included June). Remember, Penelope is the new horse, and one in very poor shape; this is your best time to get across to her that you are in charge. It's soooo easy to feel sorry for her and indulge her because of her poor condition, but if you don't want to be dealing with a pushy horse, you will nip this behavior now. 

This is important - whether you ever try ponying one off the other or not, there are a lot of situations where you may have to deal with both of them (you may need to lead both of them somewhere, or just get one through a gate without the other), and you can't have them squabbling or playing with each other with you in the middle. Each needs to have enough respect for you to ignore the other animal and focus on what you are telling them to do. When they are on their own time, they can work out their dominance issues or whatever, but when they are on your time, they need to pay attention to you.

And I'm sure the rescue told you this, but don't get too impatient to see the weight come back on Penelope. It should take at least 3-4 months to get her back to good weight. Slow weight gain is safe; you can do her real harm by feeding her too much and trying to get the weight back too fast; at least to begin with. 

Oh. I had just read something that said if you're doing something with a horse and they help keep another horse back for you that it's good, but next time I will push her out myself. It's so hard to decide what the right thing to do is sometimes, with so many different opinions from so many different people. I hate it when there's a bunch of different "right" ways to do something with horses, it makes learning pretty difficult since I have to decide which way to do things by myself. So anyways, if everyone agrees that I need to keep Penelope out of the way, and not June, then that's how I'll do it next time. I know her "bad" behavior isn't cute, although you're right I do feel bad for her sometimes given the life she's had so far, and I know I need to try and put that aside.
And as for weight gain, I know it will be slow getting her to where she needs to be, I was just pointing out that she's already made a little progress. I've had a lot of help from my grandpa figuring out what the right amount of feed is for her so we don't over do it, and I think she's on a good feeding schedule. The rescue actually didn't give me any advice on what to feed or how much. I asked them what they were feeding and they just told me hay, pasture, and grain. The rescue people are great, and they've done a lot of good for horses, but I do think they need to do a little more research on underweight horses (a lot of the horses they take in are still a healthy weight, or only a little skinny) because they weren't doing anything different for her diet than the other horses, and they were riding her. Only 15 minute rides, but they were so concerned about her building muscle, they said "she needs to gain weight but more importantly she needs to build muscle so we've been doing 15 minute rides on her" and I think that she needs to put on way more weight before anyone worries about building muscle, correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Bunnylady]

Scenario, a few years ago: I was leading a gelding through a pasture to a paddock to turn him out after breakfast. The "new guy" had volunteered to lead another gelding to the same place (these two horses were buddies). I thought he was right behind me, but he wasn't; I had actually turned my horse out and was heading back toward the barn as this guy and the gelding entered the pasture. What this fella didn't know was that this was Latte's pasture (did I ever mention that I used to call her "a witch with a capital B?"). When Latte saw this horse crossing the pasture, she came running like she had been shot from a gun, ears laid back and a look on her face like death itself. Sunny was about 2 steps behind her. When this horse saw these two horses coming, he started rearing, and backing; the guy looked like he couldn't decide whether to try to hang onto the horse or drop the lead and bolt for cover himself. I started sprinting as fast as I could run on an intercept course. When I got about 40 feet from Latte, I threw my arms up and yelled at her; though I wasn't quite fast enough to get between her and the gelding, the energy of my counter attack caused her to break off and head off in another direction.

Understand, she would never, ever have done that had I been leading the horse; she knew better. I walked those horses through that pasture every day, and Latte respected me enough to leave them alone. If she "alerted" on an animal I was with, all I had to do was speak to her, and she'd go back to grazing. Most of the kids that were taking lessons were afraid to ride in that pasture unless Latte had been parked in a stall first; they all knew her M.O, and several had had their horses bolt when Latte launched an attack. After I bought Latte, I told everyone in the barn, "you have my permission to kick her, hit her with a whip, do whatever you have to do to get the point across, but I think it's ridiculous that nobody can ride in a 25 acre pasture because that animal won't leave other horses alone."

 

[ChickenLover200]

Scenario, a few years ago: I was leading a gelding through a pasture to a paddock to turn him out after breakfast. The "new guy" had volunteered to lead another gelding to the same place (these two horses were buddies). I thought he was right behind me, but he wasn't; I had actually turned my horse out and was heading back toward the barn as this guy and the gelding entered the pasture. What this fella didn't know was that this was Latte's pasture (did I ever mention that I used to call her "a witch with a capital B?"). When Latte saw this horse crossing the pasture, she came running like she had been shot from a gun, ears laid back and a look on her face like death itself. Sunny was about 2 steps behind her. When this horse saw these two horses coming, he started rearing, and backing; the guy looked like he couldn't decide whether to try to hang onto the horse or drop the lead and bolt for cover himself. I started sprinting as fast as I could run on an intercept course. When I got about 40 feet from Latte, I threw my arms up and yelled at her; though I wasn't quite fast enough to get between her and the gelding, the energy of my counter attack caused her to break off and head off in another direction.

Understand, she would never, ever have done that had I been leading the horse; she knew better. I walked those horses through that pasture every day, and Latte respected me enough to leave them alone. If she "alerted" on an animal I was with, all I had to do was speak to her, and she'd go back to grazing. Most of the kids that were taking lessons were afraid to ride in that pasture unless Latte had been parked in a stall first; they all knew her M.O, and several had had their horses bolt when Latte launched an attack. After I bought Latte, I told everyone in the barn, "you have my permission to kick her, hit her with a whip, do whatever you have to do to get the point across, but I think it's ridiculous that nobody can ride in a 25 acre pasture because that animal won't leave other horses alone." 

I'mworking on boundaries with my mini... he nips my mare all te time...

 

[abigalerose]

Ah okay! Well, Penelope came up to us again today while untacking to do the same thing as yesterday, and all it took was a "back off" and wave of the arm and she turned around and left. And June just stood there like she couldn't care less. So I think that problem will be managed pretty easy. Now, today while I was riding June she was a brat! Every time we turned she threw her head up in the air and tried to yank everything the opposite direction and she kept trotting up to the gate and throwing her head over it and she refused to back up. So we did circles, circles, and more circles, I made her go around the round pen until she could walk slowly towards and past the gate, and finally I got her to back up. She was really stressing me out though. But on the bright side, we did a little canter with out help from anyone, and I had her walk over a log a few times. So we had our ups and downs today. I think she was worked up because there's a big storm coming in and you could hear the thunder and see the rain off behind the field. She was a pretty big pain though. But we ended on a good note.
And what do you think about the rescue saying I need to be riding and building muscle on Penelope? Too soon or no?

 

[Bunnylady]

A couple of years ago, BB2K was riding Latte in a pasture when they were approached by a 2-year-old filly that didn't know any better. BB2K tried to shoo her off, but the filly didn't pay her any mind; she thought she was the dominant animal in that pasture. They stood nose-to-nose for a few seconds, then Latte jerked her head back and punched the filly in the mouth so hard, she was working her jaw like a cow chewing its cud for several minutes afterward. I was afraid she might have loosened some teeth; teeth an even jaws can get broken from a blow like that.

So no, I don't think it's a good idea to let a horse deal with another horse when you are part of the interaction; there are too many hazards; especially for you. If Penelope crowds into June's space while you are picking out a hoof, you could get kicked by either one. If you are leading them both and one aims a nip and the other pulls back, you could wind up with a broken nose, a dislocated shoulder, or both. Imagine trying to get a horse out of a pasture, and the other horse won't let it near the gate - not fun.

But I'm with you - I don't think anybody needs to be riding a horse that is that thin, even for short periods. Any movement burns calories; when you make the horse move, it has no say over the calories it burns. Anything it burns cannot be put on its frame in the form of muscle, fat, or anything else; it's just lost. Penelope will create muscle just bumming around in the pasture and messing around with June, and she will rest when she gets tired. Shoot - sounds like she'll get a workout anytime you work June.

You say you had a storm coming up - was it windy? I swear, I think every horse's brain blows right out of their ears when it's windy.

You do know the "ride to the center of the ring (or any other place besides the gate) before you get off" trick, right?

 

[ChickenLover200]

When a storm is coming up my mare freaks out... just a drizzle and you'd think it was a tsunami! Can't even ride that much in the rain because of it....

 

[abigalerose]

It actually wasn't windy at all. They were both being weird though, I guess just becuase they could sense it and see it coming. Penelope was doing her nervous front foot thing and June walked smack into the barn door. Crazy horses. Guess they're tired of all the storming it's been doing here lately. And yes, I definitely did not get off by the gate lol. And I kept pushing her until she turned away from the gate without throwing her head. For the past couple of days we've been going out that gate and then going out and riding around the pond, so I'm not sure if she just wanted to be with Penelope (who was and always stands by the gate) or if she was wanting to just get out of the round pen and do some pasture riding. Either way we stayed in there till she was listening.
And I thought so too. I was kind of shocked that they had been putting rides on her, especially since they had her for 5 weeks, she was probably skinnier than that when they got her. Or maybe she was that size and that's why she hadn't gained. They're definitely good people but I think they do things a little weird sometimes. Remember when I said Phoenix was trained pretty weird? Well I always thought he was trained before they got him, but when I got Penelope I found out that they did the training. I think I may have offended them a little. I said "I've been working a lot with Phoenix, he's finally getting to where he'll stand still while I get on and let me flap the stirrups all over, and I taught him how to flex since he had no idea how, and we've been working on actually going forwards instead of trying to back up every time I get on him too. I've been trying to figure him out, but whoever did his training before you guys got him did things kind of weird." And then they said "we did all his training." Uh oh. Stuck my foot in mouth. I tried to change my story a little bit and make it seem like maybe I was just causing the weird behavior, becuase I felt bad, but hey! When I was there the first time and picked him out they said, and I quote "I think he was the only one who was broke before we got him, because he's the only one we've been able to ride so far"
How was I suppose to know?

 

[Bunnylady]

How are you supposed to keep their stories straight if they can't?

Latte and Sunny have been within about 50 feet of two lightning strikes that I know of; I wouldn't blame them if they started jumping out of their skins at the first hint of thunder (I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are hard of hearing!)

A few years ago, someone at the barn leased an appendix QH and brought him in; this would have been, oh, late February-early March. Even through his winter coat, I could see he was horribly thin. Someone had been keeping him in a pasture with several other horses and only one round bale feeder, and not bothering to check on whether everyone was getting their share. This guy was the lowest horse in the group (dark bay/brown, if you want to know) and he clearly wasn't. I estimated his BCS at about a 2. For about the first week, I was almost afraid to feed him; for about the first 3 days, his poop looked like pure mud. Honestly, I don't know what he had been eating. I told the lessee that every morning when I drove up, the first thing I did was look out in this horse's pen, and if he was on his feet, I breathed a prayer of thanks . . . .

At the barn owner's insistence, the lessee had a vet check the horse out after he had been with us for about 10 days. At that time, I could already see an improvement in weight, and he had started shedding his winter coat. The lessee was thinking they were going to be riding this horse in shows that Summer; they got a reality check on how long a road that animal had to travel. The vet did a number of tests on the horse, and diagnosed ataxia (basically, a lack of coordination; it's really more of a symptom and can have a number of causes). He said, "the idea of someone riding this horse is just scary. I wouldn't put my kid on him, I can tell you that." He explained that when an animal is starving, first it loses fat, then the body begins chewing away at muscle, but other tissues like organs and even nerves get damaged as well. He approved of the feeding program we had worked out to put the weight back on, but in this case, he also recommended a vitamin E/selenium supplement to hopefully help repair some of the damage.

Fast forward to about 3 months later; the vet was there for another horse, but he evaluated this animal while he was there. The horse was still a little ribby, but he was so, so much better in every way, including his coordination. The vet was all smiles. He said, "a few months ago, this horse going over a jump would have been a disaster, if he'd even have attempted it. The animal I'm looking at today has potential; this guy has a future." (put me on cloud nine, I can tell you that!)