Horse Talk

[henny1129]

I believe yes, but in case not I'll just explain. So when I say tuck her head, I mean that I want her to, instead of push her nose out, I want her to tuck her nose in and have it so her neck is curled. It looks like this: (not me by the way, just a pic off the internet )

When they tuck, it forces them to come from behind and not come down so hard on their front legs.

It can be a bit difficult to teach horses to tuck, it feels unnatural to most, but in the long run its a good skill for them to have.

Yeah, an arena would help, if you live by a fairground, maybe you could bring her there to ride, just a thought......

 

[abigalerose]

Yes I think that's the same as collection

Jade knows how to do it.
I agree it is definitely a good skill for them to have, as long as you don't force them into it and don't have their nose behind the vertical. There are good and bad ways to teach it. I don't know if you've ever seen any videos on YouTube by "little red cowgirl" but I'm going to use her method to teach June.

There are two arenas in the town over from me, an indoor and outdoor one, I just have to find out if they're free to get into and how busy they usually are. Also will have to go on a day my cousin can, considering I can't haul my horses lol.

 

[henny1129]

I've never seen those videos before, I might have to go check them out. Oh ok, that would work! Good luck!

 

[abigalerose]

So I'd like to talk about everyone's favorite subject again (sorry!!), breeding.
First, I don't see Jade and June as "walking uteruses" I see them as my big lovable babies, but they do happen to have uteruses. Just like I don't see myself as a walking uterus, but I do have one, so I'll probably have a kid one day, even though I'm not a superior human being and there's many children who need adopted. Sorry, just wanted to make my point that I don't look at my horses and see baby machines or anything like that.
I have 3 mares. I would only consider breeding 2 of them. Penelope is a grade MFT who's had a tough life. If I looked at my girls and seen walking uteruses id breed her, because she's gold champagne. But I don't, and color isn't what's important, so the thought of breeding her is not an option. The other two though, are wonderfully conformed horses with very nice papers. And June's personality is to die for. Jade isn't quite as lovey dovey as June, but she's smart, and she's a great ranch horse (you know if I had a real ranch lol) and she's got that confidence where nothing spooks her and she gets the job done. She's what lots of people want in a horse, heck I love her I just want her to be less stand off ish.
Now, with that being said, now that I've had more time to think. I don't know if I'll breed June. I knows there's always a risk when breeding and although I'm 95% sure she'd be fine, she's the love of my life so I just don't know if I can get over that 5%. I also know now that if I do, I'll wait till she's 5 at least. Jade on the other I hand, I do love and don't want to lose, but I don't love her as much (don't tell her!) and she has had a foal before with zero complications.
I have the opportunity to breed her, whenever I want. To my cousins stud horse. He's got the conformation (they'd make beautiful meaty babies), his papers match hers, he's smart, and he's got a personality like June (bonus), I really like him, I've even risen above my hate for sorrel horses, becuase he's so awesome. And with my cousin living with me, she'd be able to help guide me through the pregnancy and foal raising process.
I also have the funds to support this.
I'm not sure what I'm getting at here, other than, is there any reason why I shouldn't?
I know the generic, why breed for what you want when you can buy what you want whole riggamoral thing, and to that I say, I LOVE raising animals. More than anything. And the younger the animal is when I get it, or if it's born at my house, the better I bond with it for some reason, and the more love we have for each other. For example, June's the youngest horse I've owned since I sold my mustang and our bond is unbreakable. My mustang I bought as a yearling, and I had that same bond with him, I sold him becuase I thought it was best for him and it's something that still makes me cry when I talk about it (and the heartbreak I got from selling him is how I know I could never sell June, there's no way I could ever go through that again). My chihuahua, my favorite dog out of every dog I've EVER had, I picked her out when she was 2 days old, my other chi is her puppy, my sister has her other pup (daddy to the shih tzu babies, one of which I'm keeping and already love uncontrollably LOL), favorite chickens have always been ones I hatched myself, best cat I ever had, I picked him out the day he was born and seen him twice a week until the time I brought him home. Basically what I'm saying here is I don't think there's any better way to bond, wether it be your own kid, or animal. Jade and Penelope are older, they're sassy, sometimes I feel like we're all teenage girls and I don't like them. I know I can go out and buy exactly what I want, but to me, it's not the same.
The miracle of life totally amazes me (hence the raising dogs, I love the whole pregnancy, birthing, and raising process), I've been like this for as long as I can remember, it's always drove my parents up the wall bc we've had a lot of animals.
Anyways, I have myself a little more under control now, so I make sure to raise animals that are "worth raising".
What I kind of want to talk about here is the fact that Jade (and possibly June) have never "proven" themselves or aren't money earners or whatever it is that some people think make a horse worth having/ breeding.
To me that's not a reason I specifically look for. Sure I'd love to do reining some day but I'm a heck of a long ways from it and right now I'm not involved in the show world whatsoever. So why should my goal be to pop out a top reiner or cutting horse? What good would that do me? What I do have is a love for horses and several family members and a friend (and maybe one day a boyfriend too!) that would happily go on trail rides with me. So is it wrong to let a horse have a baby so I can raise and bond with it, and use it as one darn good trail horse? Or maybe try for a baby that'd make a good horse to use on the farm since I am going to have cows one day? A baby from Jade could go either way, trail horse, or cow horse. A baby from June would make a great trail horse, or if I ever did get her trained and shown, a potential reiner. I'm not just wanting to breed them repeatedly and sell the babies. I want one baby, two at MOST to keep for myself so I have trail/farm horses. If I have June, Jade, and a baby from one of them I'm not going to be over run with horses by any means. And if the baby came out with 3 legs and 4 eyes I wouldn't love it any less. I'm not oblivious to the fact that things do go wrong sometimes, but I like to remain optimistic.
*side note, I'm leaving Penelope at my grandparents, I might even give her to my grandpa, Jade and June have pretty much outcast her, and my grandpa seems to really love her, he's even been asking me to ride her, and I can't ever get him to ride the other horses. He's got a thing for fox trotters.

Sorry for the rambling, it's a little late here and I'm not sure my brain is working properly

That whole post made me sound like I'm offended over something, I promise I'm not lol just trying to bring up some talking points

 

[chickluvinfreak]

I don't see a problem in breeding one of your horses. As long as their healthy and have good confirmation and breeding like you said they do. Them having been in the "money" at competitions doesn't really matter if you plan on mainly trail riding. Only reason it may be a problem is if you ended up want to sell the foal. But theirs still plenty of people who would buy a horse that doesn't come from champion showing stock. I would love to be able to breed my horse but by the time I could able afford to she will probably be too old. So if your at a place in your life where you have the time and money to raise a foal, I say go for it

 

[abigalerose]

Oh yes I don't see how that'd be a problem at all. I've bought a horse before from a breeder who raised and trained his own quarter horses and MFTs solely to sell as trail horses. They were all awesome looking horses with decent papers, who'd never even seen any type of show ring, and since they were such good trail horses they sold for $2,500 and up. Some people think you should only breed if it's money earners in what ever disapline, but I think that's kinda silly considering lots and LOTS of people only trail ride. And then people will say to rescue but not everyone wants to bring home a horse with a mile long list of potential problems and put a good amount of time into rehabbing it. I know you can always go out and buy another trail horse, and if you have a grade mare with conformation faults then yes absolutely just buy what you want (although I have seen people raise a grade foals just to use around the farm, doesn't mean they're wrong). Maybe I'm biased but I think my mares are awesome candidates.
And if I do breed one, then I've tried everything, rescue, buying, and breeding

 

[henny1129]

I think this is a good idea! I have never bred before, but if I would I would not be all about breeding for the best dressage or barrel racer or cow horse, I would be breeding just for a good tempered, trail horse. I enjoyed reading what you had to say as well, it was very interesting and I didn't think you were ranting.

 

[Bunnylady]

In rabbits, we call it 'hutch blindness,' in horses, it's called 'barn blindness.' Basically, it's this idea that forms itself in almost every owner's head, making them believe that their animals are the most perfect on the planet . . . then they take 'em to a show, and the judge must be crooked because the best they got was sixth place, lol.

You look at your girls, and you see "wonderful" conformation; a person who carries a judge's license might say, "yep, that's a Quarter Horse," and keep right on walking. They may not have any glaringly obvious conformation errors; nothing that stands out as being the probable cause of unsoundness or unsuitability for a certain discipline, and still not have a chance at the ribbons (let alone the big buckle). If you scale your thinking back to saying merely that your girls are pretty colors, and they have adequate conformation, you may be closer to the truth.

Realistically, the "3 legs and 4 eyes" argument is just silly, you know. If the animal is really that bad, the only humane thing to do is kill it. Blondie's conformation is pretty bad - she's ewe necked, roach backed, and cow hocked, and both of her parents were show horses with good bloodlines. She also has locking stifles, though if I keep her back feet trimmed at abnormally steep angles, that is less of an issue. Her problems are bad enough that, if she were a big horse, her usefulness would be severely compromised, but she's fortunate that, being a mini, she doesn't have to be useful (her crazy-sweet personality means she can have other uses). Sunny was cursed with the stupid little feet that an awful lot of QH's have these days, compounded with thin soles. She was about 10 years old when she was given to me as a pasture buddy for my other horse, because chronic lameness made her useless - if I hadn't taken her, she'd have gone to auction, which almost assuredly would have meant a trip to a Mexican slaughterhouse. Not terribly long after getting her, I watched her limping up in the pasture, and wondered if it really was a kindness to keep her alive just to be living with constant pain . . . . Fast-forward a few years, and by a miracle, she seems to be pain-free most of the time now, though she still occasionally steps on something and pokes a hole in her foot just walking around in the pasture. Would I breed her, even with all of her other positives, and risk giving those feet to another animal? No way, though apparently a previous owner did - we know she has had at least one foal.

You could lose the mare, you could lose the foal, you could even lose them both - spend enough time on Marestare, and you'll see all of those scenarios. What you wind up with may not be what you wanted, the world doesn't need more "just adequate" horses, there are tons of good horses going to slaughter, etc.

You have heard the all the arguments - I'm sure they go back and forth in your head all the time. What it all boils down to, is the only real reason for breeding your mare(s) is, "because I want to." That's it. The old guy that owns the barn where I used to keep my horses bred Appaloosas for that reason. He usually manages to sell the foals (eventually), though it is generally at a loss, even though he buys the cheapest feed he can find and only has them trimmed maybe twice a year. His mares foal out in the field, I'm not sure if he has ever had a mare or foal die during delivery. With most of the people who breed any kind of animal, that's the situation; they breed, whatever they breed, just "because I want to." It's not the money (most actually lose money, if you total it all up). Something in their psyche gets some kind of satisfaction from doing it, so as long as they can afford to do it, they pursue their hobby. Whether it's a one-off breeding, or several, or something that goes on for years and years, most hobby breeders are in it simply "because I want to."

 

[ChickenLover200]

Update on Eli. He is doing excellent! I met my goal which was September 15 (my birthday). I was able to drive him in full harness hitched to the cart thenight before my birthday, so I was really happy.

 

[Eggsoteric]

In rabbits, we call it 'hutch blindness,' in horses, it's called 'barn blindness.' Basically, it's this idea that forms itself in almost every owner's head, making them believe that their animals are the most perfect on the planet . . . then they take 'em to a show, and the judge must be crooked because the best they got was sixth place, lol.

You look at your girls, and you see "wonderful" conformation; a person who carries a judge's license might say, "yep, that's a Quarter Horse," and keep right on walking. They may not have any glaringly obvious conformation errors; nothing that stands out as being the probable cause of unsoundness or unsuitability for a certain discipline, and still not have a chance at the ribbons (let alone the big buckle). If you scale your thinking back to saying merely that your girls are pretty colors, and they have adequate conformation, you may be closer to the truth.

Realistically, the "3 legs and 4 eyes" argument is just silly, you know. If the animal is really that bad, the only humane thing to do is kill it. Blondie's conformation is pretty bad - she's ewe necked, roach backed, and cow hocked, and both of her parents were show horses with good bloodlines. She also has locking stifles, though if I keep her back feet trimmed at abnormally steep angles, that is less of an issue. Her problems are bad enough that, if she were a big horse, her usefulness would be severely compromised, but she's fortunate that, being a mini, she doesn't have to be useful (her crazy-sweet personality means she can have other uses). Sunny was cursed with the stupid little feet that an awful lot of QH's have these days, compounded with thin soles. She was about 10 years old when she was given to me as a pasture buddy for my other horse, because chronic lameness made her useless - if I hadn't taken her, she'd have gone to auction, which almost assuredly would have meant a trip to a Mexican slaughterhouse. Not terribly long after getting her, I watched her limping up in the pasture, and wondered if it really was a kindness to keep her alive just to be living with constant pain . . . . Fast-forward a few years, and by a miracle, she seems to be pain-free most of the time now, though she still occasionally steps on something and pokes a hole in her foot just walking around in the pasture. Would I breed her, even with all of her other positives, and risk giving those feet to another animal? No way, though apparently a previous owner did - we know she has had at least one foal.

You could lose the mare, you could lose the foal, you could even lose them both - spend enough time on Marestare, and you'll see all of those scenarios. What you wind up with may not be what you wanted, the world doesn't need more "just adequate" horses, there are tons of good horses going to slaughter, etc.

You have heard the all the arguments - I'm sure they go back and forth in your head all the time. What it all boils down to, is the only real reason for breeding your mare(s) is, "because I want to." That's it. The old guy that owns the barn where I used to keep my horses bred Appaloosas for that reason. He usually manages to sell the foals (eventually), though it is generally at a loss, even though he buys the cheapest feed he can find and only has them trimmed maybe twice a year. His mares foal out in the field, I'm not sure if he has ever had a mare or foal die during delivery. With most of the people who breed any kind of animal, that's the situation; they breed, whatever they breed, just "because I want to." It's not the money (most actually lose money, if you total it all up). Something in their psyche gets some kind of satisfaction from doing it, so as long as they can afford to do it, they pursue their hobby. Whether it's a one-off breeding, or several, or something that goes on for years and years, most hobby breeders are in it simply "because I want to."

I think the OP has already made up her mind.

I live in what's considered an affluent area and even well trained, bomb-proof trail horses are going for pennies on the dollar. Have a friend who just picked up a well-bred Arab mare who has competed all over the country and won several endurance races. He paid $450 for her at a local auction (outbid the meat man). He had the opportunity to speak to the previous owner who was actually disappointed that the meat man didn't end up with her as he was going thru a divorce and anything he got for her he'd have to split with the ex-wife.