Horse Talk

[DutchBunny03]

She looks alot like the horse i used to ride at lessons, Lily.

 

[Bunnylady]

June stretches out really far sometimes! I have to manually pull her head up on occasion if I want to trot because she'll get so relaxed and have her head way down. And she's the biggest sweetheart, everyone told me I was crazy/stupid to choose her as my first horse to train because they claimed palominos are crazy, mares are hot headed, and young horses have to much go. They thought she'd be a wild combination. Pft. My cousin claims that since she's palomino she'll get crazy as she gets older, or at least more stubborn. I don't see the crazy, but she is pretty stubborn lol

Hmmm, I guess the most famous movie horse ever, Trigger, was crazy, and Olivia de Havilland and all the others took their lives in their hands riding that stallion before Roy Rogers bought him. Wonder how in the world Rogers and the others taught all those cues to a crazy horse, and what was he thinking taking a crazy animal to all those P.R. events?

Why should a Pali be crazy? Are red horses crazy? Are Buckskins and Smoky Blacks? What is it about dilute reds that should make them nutso? Latte is a bit intense, but she certainly isn't crazy; the more she gets worked with, the better she gets.

 

[abigalerose]

Yeah I don't get it either. Just an old cowboy myth I'm assuming! June is the least crazy horse I have ever had or had the pleasure of riding. I let a 5 year old sit on her before she was saddle broke, ole crazy thing that she is. And my first ride I had to kick her for 5 minutes before she moseyed around at a snails pace. She's a wild one let me tell ya.

 

[abigalerose]

Okay, I need help with something. 80% of the time I'm riding June, she's an angel, 15% of the time she's a little naughty, but I can easily fix it from in the saddle or by round penning her for a few minutes. But that last 5%.. she has days where she just wants to be really naughty. And okay, she's not bucking or rearing or biting or crow hopping, so I guess it's not that bad, but compared to her usual self it's bad. Today was one of those days. I round penned her, noticed she was tipping her nose outward instead of inward (sign of disrespect) so I kept her going till she licked her lips. Okay so then I got on her, in the round pen, she didn't want to move, I showed her the riding whip, had to tap her a couple times (usually just showing her does the trick) then we walked around. Then I took her out into the front yard. Walked out, no problems, turned around and started trotting down the drive way, okay, and then she got into her fast trot so I tried to slow her down, and nothing, she kept on trucking all the way up to the barn so I pulled the E break, she trotted with her head sideways, slowed down, stopped, yanked on the bit. Then I made her stand, turned around and started again. Heading back towards the house (walking down the driveway) she veered off into the yard, I tried to turn her back, she yanked her head the other way, I yanked her head towards me, she set against the bit, fast walked sideways, then gave up after a while. We did this a bunch more times. She finally decided her best bet when I was trying to turn her was to pull her head way down, set it against the bit at an angel, and fast walk sideways, if I didn't give in then she started throwing her head up and down from a low and crooked angle, so I pulled tighter (I'm looking her straight in the face at this point), she sidesteps across the yard and sets against the bit. What the heck?!
Every time I ask for advice on this I always get "pull her nose around to your hand, that'll stop her!" Okay except it doesn't. Not to mention she's a 1000 pound animal, so sometimes I'm pulling on the reins with all my might, and she decides to lean into the bit with all her might. Doesn't that hurt?! Because she sure doesn't act like it does.
We struggled a bunch today. I got one good walk in and then I untacked her so she could think about how much easier life is when she just does what I ask.

And Jade. Ugh. So I can walk out and pet Jade, no big deal, but if I have the halter, even if it's behind my back, she knows. I tried to catch her today after I let June loose, she was in her shed (there's a door way on each side), I walked in one door, she turned around and went out the other, so I went back out and around the building to cut her off, she stared me down.. then she trotted to the right, I walked with her, trying to stay in front of her drive line, once she got me walking that way, BAM, 180° turn on her haunches, and then she cantered off into the sunset.
I got mad and threw my halter down (oops, hissy fit. But really why do they all have to be sassy on the same day).
And the other two they were gone with the wind as soon as they seen me untack June.

Anyways, how do I keep June from doing that thing she does?
And how on earth do I outsmart my genius?

 

[Bunnylady]

About June - what are you doing with your seat and legs?

There are now a bunch of videos of people putting horses through reining horse patterns while riding bridleless and bareback. These animals are being controlled through seat, leg, and voice cues, and the bridle has become basically superfluous.

It isn't that hunk of metal in his mouth that controls a horse, it's his willingness to respond to the pressure. As you have observed, they can lean right into it and move right through it. A hard-mouthed horse didn't get that way because he can't feel the pressure, he got there by learning to brace against the pressure instead of giving to it. If he hasn't been taught to soften, if he isn't getting release at the appropriate times, he decides the pressure is more or less meaningless and he just pushes right through it.

With almost any horse, there will always be times when it seems like all they want to do is fight you. Especially with a young horse; it's like they are saying,"I won't, and you can't make me!" It's always just a little humbling and just a little scary to realize that you really can't make them do anything - even the harshest of methods rely on the animal surrendering its will and submitting to the pressure. But, that's why they say that it takes a lot of wet saddle blankets to make a good horse - you need a lot of time and repetition to create a habit of obedience. In the meantime, you ask, and when you get what you ask for, you reward with release.

This video might help a little with the stopping - if you are using your leg to push her body sideways, she'll have a lot more to think about than just resisting the pressure from the bit:

And here's a link on how to teach a one-rein stop:

https://equineink.com/2009/02/15/installing-an-emergency-brake-how-to-perform-a-one-rein-stop/

 

[abigalerose]

When I'm trying to turn her I kick with the outside leg. My ultimate goal is to be able to ride her off of seat and leg pressure like I can with Jade. I definitely don't want to use the bit as means of controlling her since I'm into the Liberty stuff and hope to not even need a bridle one day, if I choose not to use one. But she definitely has the 3 year old "you can't make me" attitude every once in a while. We spend a lot of time with flexing to make her soft and so on. And I've seen a lot of one rein stop videos, that one was no different. The videos and the multiple people telling me how to one rein stop don't help, because that's what I'm doing, and she's just fighting it. I mean she's not galloping across the field or anything but she's not standing quietly either. I think I need something different than the one rein stop/emergency stop to use in this situation, because it's not an emergency and if I keep doing the same thing she's just gonna keep fighting it. It's great for slowing a horse, and it does slow her if we're not already going slow, but if we're trying to turn or stop completely it's just a big frustrating struggle

 

[Bunnylady]

"Kick with the outside leg?" Your leg pressure moves the back end/body sideways - inside rein and outside leg is supposed to move the whole horse sideways.

 

[abigalerose]

It's not suppose to move the horse sideways into my leg?
If I'm pulling her nose to the left, and putting pressure on her with my right leg, she should be turning left, not speed walking sideways to the right

 

[Bunnylady]

Pulling her nose to the left, and pressing with your right leg, is supposed to move the whole horse sideways (think side pass) to the left.

Moving into pressure is an instinctive thing that young horses do. When young horses get nervous, they crowd together. If they move off, they go as a group, and they may be bumping into each other. By leaning into each other, they steady each other, and nobody falls down - that's one explanation, anyway.

If you want her to turn to the left, tip her nose to the left, and use your left heel to move her hindquarters to the right.

 

[abigalerose]

It should turn the horse to the left. At least according to what I've been taught and how every one else I know rides. Sidepassing is a little more complicated than that. But she's not moving left at all, which is the problem, she's moving right and fighting the bit. So if that's an instinctive thing.. okay. I guess that makes sense, although she doesn't seem particularly nervous when she does it, just stubborn. But maybe there is something making her nervous, since she doesn't do it very often.
Kicking with the inside leg goes against everything ive ever been told.. but I guess it's worth a shot