Houdini strikes again

[Duker17]

I had planned to come home and ask you guys for recommendations on how to cover my dog kennel, but I think I have a much tougher decision to make.

About a month and a half ago, my German Shorthair, Chase, discovered that he could climb out of the 6 foot kennel he goes in each day while I'm at work. So I put some plastic temporary fence over a portion of the kennel he was jumping out of, but that only lasted for about a day. Then I started putting him in a wire crate inside the kennel. That worked for a few days, until he figured out how to unlock the doors and get out. When he discovered that, he got out and broke into my meatie tractor and killed about 30 cornish crosses. Sooo, I went to the store, bought him a harness and a cable tie out. Ran the cable through the chain link of the kennel and then into the crate, so that if he did get out he wouldn't be able to jump out of the kennel. Well I was wrong. Today I came home and discovered that he had gotten out of the crate, unhooked his harness/cable and got out of the kennel, where he proceeded to kill about 20 of my layers, including several 8 week old chicks.

Chase is a very "special" dog. To him, I am the only human on earth that is not a scary, dog eating, monster. Everyone else he acknowledges only from out of sight, behind the couch. He has severe separation anxiety from me, if I leave him in the house for even 30 seconds by himself, he will poop in the dining room. So keeping him in a crate inside is not an option. Training him is completely out of the question, I can tell him "sit" in the happiest voice I have, and he still thinks he is in trouble. He completely shuts down if anyone other than me even looks in his direction. He eats twice as much as my lab and rotweiler, yet is still skinny because of all the nervous energy he is constantly burning. I can never leave for the weekend because all of the boarding places I have taken him to, have asked that he not come back. In December, I had to go to NC for 2 1/2 weeks for work. I had my brother come down to animal sit for me, and Chase did not eat but once a week while I was gone. I came home to a rack of bones.

I guess what I am asking is, what do I do? I am emotionally drained with him. Hubby hates him, no one else sees any of his good qualities - which he does have some! He is super sweet, and a great cuddle buddy, but no one else ever sees that side of him. DH and my dad (whom I trust with all animal related situations) have both said that perhaps it is time I give up. They think I have been more patient with him than they can even imagine, and this may be a hopeless cause. In my head, I know they are right. But I've put 2+ years in with this dog, and despite all his faults, I love him to death. This is breaking my heart.

 

[chickenzoo]

Perhaps you could find him a home who has no other animals and are home all the time, not easy but they are out there. I know he is afraid of other people, but perhaps you may find someone he likes. Do you ever take him on walks etc... ? Perhaps you could slowly introduce him to knew people off the property. Like walk him and have someone else come from another direction and as they pass throw him a yummy treat. If done enough he may start to see people as yummy treat givers..............

 

[Akane]

Yummy treats to do not usually tempt dogs like that in to coming near strangers. My akita will turn down the most wonderful items you can come up with in order to avoid getting within 10' of a strange person. It works best to just tell people to ignore her and teach her to ignore them rather than trying to convince her strangers are good. Strangers will always be bad to her no matter what they do.

First I'd get a bicycle chain for the kennel door and figure out a roof like strips of leftover chainlink, a tarp, or when all else fails top the fence in electric wire. Electric sheep fencing is the only thing that will keep my akita in a yard. If you tie him out replace all clips with locking carabiners and I wouldn't bother with those wire crates. They are cheaper for a reason and even if you figure out how to keep him from opening it and tie him in it he'll eventually just bend it. My akita is small for the breed and turned a borrowed wire crate in to a V after breaking the door latch on her solid crate. We have a new solid crate with cable ties around the door latch to keep her from popping the front off and breaking the springs.

Have you talked to a vet about his problems? There are pretty cheap meds for treating anxiety in dogs and cats. Especially when you have to leave him with someone else. If I ever had to board my akita I'd rely on drugging her or I know she would refuse to eat and refuse to follow anyone outside. She'd probably just lay down in the middle of the pen and growl until I returned.

Talk to a local trainer even if you can't take him to classes or afford having a trainer out too often. Training really helps a dog like that but it may require some different behaviors from usual. Such as I'd completely cut out all verbal commands at first. I'd rely on luring where you get him to follow a treat. So for sit you just hold a treat slightly above his nose and move it towards his tail. If he tries to take it withdraw it and try again. Eventually the tail goes down for the nose to go up to get the treat. After he gets it then just hold your hand out in the same spot without a treat. When he sits to a hand signal with no treat then put a word to it said in a calm smooth tone of voice. To make him lay down move the treat to the floor and don't let him take it until his body follows his head. To make him heel move the treat toward your side and give it to him when he gets to the correct spot. Reward him for things he already does right. A clingy dog tends to be very good at following you around so reward him for staying within a certain distance and/or on a certain side. Don't reward by getting all excited. Reward simply by giving a treat, throwing a toy, or petting him calmly on the sides (not the top of the head). Do not lean over him to greet him or tell him to do something. Bend at the knees instead of the waist because leaning over a dog is very threatening behavior. Drop to a knee when asking for things like down or if necessary to pet him. Little things like that may be all that's needed to get him to perform tasks and build his confidence. A dog that has a job and learns to interact with people is much more stable emotionally.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

I really feel for you and your dog in this!

I deal with aggression and fear issues as my speciality in my training.

I have a few questions for you. How old is Chase? Is he neutered, and how old whas he when he was neutered? Where and when did get him? Where was he bred?

My very first thought when you were describing his behavior is: Have you ever had him physically evaluated? I don't mean just a visual or hands on exam by a Vet, I am talking big time blood work to check all his systems, hormones, nutrient levels, blood sugar, organ enzymes. That will tell you a lot. Many times this severe fear from a dog is, at least, partially a physical issue like a thyroid imbalance, food allergies, toxicities in the environment.

The second thing I can tell you is if he is from hunting genentics that is part of the dog's issue. If he's gone hunting in his genes close up, he's very bored and very high drive. His temperament is obviously exceptionally "soft" meaning he threshhold for stress is very low and he doesn't recover from stress.

The third thing is about your comment that "training is out of the question". Well....its not. It just depends on finding a trainer willing to work with you and your dog, a trainer who knows what he/she is doing and your commitment level to your dog and his problems. And of course financially this may be a hardship as the kind of long term training required for this type of fear can be very expensive.

My last question is: Are you considering euthanizing him? Harsh question, but realisitic. The dog's qualitiy of life isn't as good as it could be -- not because you are not a good owner-- but because he can't relax. His stress levels are horrible. Chances are he is going to seriously hurt himself out of a fearful response or his need to escape enclosure.

 

[sourland]

Quote:
In my opinion, this is all excellent advice!

 

[Duker17]

Quote:
Thanks everyone for your responses. Treats are, as Akane mentioned, not useful at all. He flat out won't take them -from anyone.

Jamie: Chase will be 3 in August, I've had him since he was about 6 months, I had him neutered shortly after. We got him from my husband's boss who "breeds" GSPs. Hubby wanted a hunting dog, I love german shorthairs, seemed like a match made in heaven. Although I can't call the boss out on any of this, I think he is doing a horrible job of breeding. Chase, just physically, is not at all what the breed should be. He is incredibly narrow through the chest and very much on the small side in general. GSPs typically seem to have a lot of separation anxiety issues, I've owned a few, as have my parents, and they all have had some kind of psychological issue, so his behavior did not come completely unexpected, I have just never seen it this bad.

I have never had any major blood work done, only nutrient levels when we first got him, because he is so skinny. However, there was nothing that jumped out at us as being deficient.

Training being out of the question, was meant more in relation to him killing chickens than general training, although looking back at my original post it looks like that is what I meant. I have done lots of training with him, obedience classes, socialization work, etc., so far with no luck. He literally completely shuts down no matter what I've tried. In regards to sit, he does know it, but will only acknowledge it about once a day. If we try it more than that, no matter how I present the command to him, he shuts down again. I always tell my husband though that I think Chase is actually a genius dog who plays dumb. He does know "get down" and if I ask him if he's "Hungry" he goes to his food bowl, whereas if I say "Are you thirsty" he goes to the water bowl. Perhaps I should look into finding a trainer in my area who does specialize in fearful dogs. I tried finding one before but had to quit when all I could find were ones that were $300 per session. That is just not in the budget for as many sessions as I'm sure it would take....

Euthanizing was what I was considering. I just honestly can't see trying to give him to anyone, because realistically, who is going to spend the time and money it would take, on a dog that won't even acknowledge their existence. Plus, it might turn into a game of what happens first, does he starve to death or does the treatment work. I am worried about him hurting himself though. I worry that he is going to get his collar hung up and hang himself, or if he continues to get out he could get hit by a car.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
I really would encourage you to rule out a physical reason for his behavior, they often go hand in hand. A full blood panel, enzyme, protein, lipids, hormones are all in order. If all is otherwise normal you can assume the issue is behavioral.

A good trainer costs money, and sometimes crappy trainers cost money LOL.

Fear is one of those self rewarding behaviors, along with escaping, and killing. All self rewarding. Fear gets him out of his discomfort and unknown things, or situations he percieves as scary. Escaping gives him relief from his boredom, and gives him exercise. Chasing/killing your birds satisfies his hunting urges. To him these are all wonderful things. Even the fear he feeds off of and it gives him a sense of control, believe it or not. And control is what this is all about. He has learned to control his environment by displaying fearful behaviors that get him out of a situation. Also, when he displays fear, and the behavior is rewarded by, for instance, a stranger NOT approaching him because he seems fearful, that is rewarding his fear response. He is getting just what he is looking for. This also, as you have probably seen, gets worse with time. The more fear he shows, the less you feel you can do with him -- it really works out perfectly to him (or so it seems).

One of the reasons dogs have anxiety is that the owners, unknowingly, reward the fear. When the dog shows fear, we stop what we are doing, stop the interaction, often times talking to the dog. This works for the dog. "If i cower from this person my owner stops the interaction so I should cower more, if they continue to get close I will freak out and the interaction will stop. Because it stops I have a good reason to be afraid obviously!" Its normal for us to stop and examine the situation and go "what the heck is wrong with you". But its exactly what the dog is looking for.

But blah, blah, blah you probably already know this

The way to stop the fear is to give the dog a reason to look to you for what to do next. This is much easier said than done. First, you've got to know what Chase's first signs that he's getting fearful are. In those moments when he is relaxed with you, what's the first thing you notice about him when he becomse tense? The goal is to recognize that and stop the situation from escalating before he's got a chance to have that first twinge of real fearful behaivor.

I have some suggestions for you. But I'll leave this where it is. How much time do you have to work with him on a daily basis?

 

[chickenzoo]

I wasn't saying for someone to hand him a treat, but when walking on a leash have someone from a distance walk past and throw a piece of chicken or cheese with out looking at him as they walked past. Over time he may at least look forward to someone walking 50 feet to the side of him. I've trained dogs, fearful dogs, and slow interaction to a point can be helpful. The dog will not always be in an environment w/ o someone around....... unless you keep him in a closet or have him put down. I was only giving one option that may help. Anything is worth a try if death is the other option.
But just my opinion of course...... no one listens to me anyway....

 

[bagendhens]

my first suggestion would be to completly cover the dog run...get a roll of chainlink or that vinyl coated wire fencing, feild fencing ect...(something strong, doesnt nessicarily have to be a tiny guage as long as its strong...just make sure the gaps in the fence are too small to get his head through (if the head goes through the body will often follow)

you may have to modify a couple of peices of 2x2 to form extra support for the roof to stop the fencing from sagging and give you something extra to attatch it to.
then i suggest the big heavy duty cable ties to zip tie it into place, cover the entire top and put in more ties than you think is nessicary especially on corners.
if that doesnt keep him in his run, nothing will...

beyond that...only you know the best course of action, from the sounds of it no amount of socilization is going to quell this dogs nerves, you could try a calm ignore method, but i doubt this dog would ever settle happily into a new home...so if you cant keep him, and as a last resort only (after a professional trainers attempts) id probebly euthanize rather than try to rehome.
ive met a few dogs like this (we had one at the daycare, a weimeriner) who was just a basket case, hed been coemming for 5 years (and it was the only way the owners coudl keep him as he was driving the neighbors to complain ALOT) and he spent the entire day trying to climb out dive through windows slip through the door pacing and whining...theyd tried to rehome him 3 times and he got returned because he was worrying himself to death in the new home...
luckily we had enough people and saftey measures that he was safe (miserable but safe) at daycare and they could keep him...he was fine with the wife, but terrified of almost everyone else... but it was very clear that dog would never do well in a new home...
it sounds like your boy is in a similar mental state

good luck!

 

[Hoss1975]

Why do you think he is untrainable?Any dog is trainable you just have to put in the time doing it and have a lot of patience.I used to train dogs for the US army at Grissom ARB,i have met some tough characters,but not one that was "untrainable"