How do commercial chickens lay eggs under such poor living conditions?

[NatJ]

no chicken lays 365

Not quite true.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/70781-most-prolific-chicken
A hen laid 371 eggs in 365 days

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1985-06-15-8502080029-story.html
A hen laid an egg every single day for 448 consecutive days

(I'm not saying those hens could do that for multiple years without stopping for a molt somewhere along the way, just pointing out that 365 eggs in 365 days is possible for at least a few hens in some circumstances. Those ones were in 1979 and 1985)

 

[Acre4Me]

Not quite true.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/70781-most-prolific-chicken
A hen laid 371 eggs in 365 days

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1985-06-15-8502080029-story.html
A hen laid an egg every single day for 448 consecutive days

(I'm not saying those hens could do that for multiple years without stopping for a molt somewhere along the way, just pointing out that 365 eggs in 365 days is possible for at least a few hens in some circumstances. Those ones were in 1979 and 1985)

<where IS that head scratching emoji…>

Ok. There are always exceptions, to just about anything. Good for you. But, the VAST majority of chickens will not lay 365 for the reason it is known to take over 24 hours to create an egg generally. 1979 and 1985…SMH.

 

[New duck mommy 2021]

Okie dokie. You do you.

Backyard flocks are not the same as commercial flocks..bc, well, they are commercial and are not hobbies or charities.

FWIW, commercial egg facilities, get rid of their chickens before adult molt and before production wanes. This keeps costs down, production up, and eggs affordable to more people. Not everyone can raise chickens or find local farms or people to buy from.

That’s why I said my birds are not for production
My birds are my pets
They will live a spoiled life if they lay or not
I’m not attacking others who run their flocks other ways all I was saying was force lighting is not natural
I also said I can’t say how big production treat the birds I have not been in one to see
All I know is they use lighting to keep birds laying when they would normally take their natural break
I didn’t say that was cruel or mean
I said it’s not natural

 

[NatJ]

it is known to take over 24 hours to create an egg generally.

Generally, but not all the time.

People have been doing experiments and research for quite some time, trying to understand how it works and lower that number.

For example:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8136716/
Table 2 has rows for "MOI" (mean oviposition interval, i.e. time between laying one egg and laying the next egg)
They've got some hens laying eggs with intervals of 23 hours and some minutes.
In case the link goes dead, the paper is called "Nest acceptance, clutch, and oviposition traits are promising selection criteria to improve egg production in cage-free system," published in 2021, by author Lorry Becot and others.

I found a few older papers that recorded some intervals as short as 20 hours, although they said that was usually paired with a longer interval before or after. They also recorded some hens with regular intervals of 28+ hours (obviously that does not help a hen lay more eggs per year!)

Some studies have worked with a day/night cycle of less or more than 24 hours. They've found that hens skip more "days" when the cycle is short, and are more likely to lay two eggs per "day" when the cycle is long.

 

[NatJ]

All I know is they use lighting to keep birds laying when they would normally take their natural break

That is actually an interesting question: is it natural for chickens to stop laying eggs in the winter? Or is that just something they do when we keep them in parts of the world where winter days are so short?

Chickens are descended from Red Junglefowl.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_junglefowl
"In many areas, red junglefowl breed during the dry portion of the year, typically winter or spring. This is true in parts of India, Nepal, Thailand, Vietnam, and Laos. However, year-round breeding by red junglefowl has been documented in palm-oil plantations in Malaysia and also may occur elsewhere."
(wikipedia has lots of links to sources of that. But notice, it mentioned breeding in WINTER.)

Here is an article about feral chickens on the island of Kauai (descended from domestic chickens, but living like wild animals with no human care.)
https://www.livescience.com/57669-animal-sex-kauai-chickens.html
It says that some of them do breed all year long, while others are seasonal.
I would assume that no-one is making an effort to provide supplemental light for those feral chickens.

I agree that artificial light is not natural. But it's not natural to keep chickens in areas with heavy snow in the winter, either. They would naturally starve to death or freeze, so humans provide food and shelter to let them stay alive and hopefully healthy anyway. And it's not natural to keep chickens in areas with very short winter days, which leaves the question of how much light is really best for chickens in winter-- it may be more than what some climates can naturally provide. I would think is reasonable to add artificial light in winter up to at least 10 or 11 hours of light per day, just to allow the chickens enough time to eat and move around. (Yes, that is quite a ways from the 16 hours that is sometimes recommended to increase laying.)

 

[New duck mommy 2021]

That is actually an interesting question: is it natural for chickens to stop laying eggs in the winter? Or is that just something they do when we keep them in parts of the world where winter days are so short?

Chickens are descended from Red Junglefowl.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_junglefowl
"In many areas, red junglefowl breed during the dry portion of the year, typically winter or spring. This is true in parts of India, Nepal, Thailand, Vietnam, and Laos. However, year-round breeding by red junglefowl has been documented in palm-oil plantations in Malaysia and also may occur elsewhere."
(wikipedia has lots of links to sources of that. But notice, it mentioned breeding in WINTER.)

Here is an article about feral chickens on the island of Kauai (descended from domestic chickens, but living like wild animals with no human care.)
https://www.livescience.com/57669-animal-sex-kauai-chickens.html
It says that some of them do breed all year long, while others are seasonal.
I would assume that no-one is making an effort to provide supplemental light for those feral chickens.

I agree that artificial light is not natural. But it's not natural to keep chickens in areas with heavy snow in the winter, either. They would naturally starve to death or freeze, so humans provide food and shelter to let them stay alive and hopefully healthy anyway. And it's not natural to keep chickens in areas with very short winter days, which leaves the question of how much light is really best for chickens in winter-- it may be more than what some climates can naturally provide. I would think is reasonable to add artificial light in winter up to at least 10 or 11 hours of light per day, just to allow the chickens enough time to eat and move around. (Yes, that is quite a ways from the 16 hours that is sometimes recommended to increase laying.)

You make some great points and I will read the article you provided
Thank you for not jumping at me but giving some good points to think about

 

[Nomadicus]

On the subject of lighting... Do egg farmers in the land of the midnight sun need buildings to put hens in that can be blacked out so the amount of daylight is more natural? One thing to be considered is to go back to the original source of chicken in the Jungles of Asia and see what the year round sunlight is like. Once removed from those conditions all bets are off as to what is right and wrong. In ag class we were taught that a hen is born with all the eggs that they will every be capable of laying. I believe selective breeding can be used to create hens that can adapt to living conditions other than running wild in a jungle where loss of life to predators was the norm. I for one do not like caged layers. Mine get free range recess time daily when weather allows. Another thing I don't like is marketing that shows how hens are kept in open barns running in an out as they please in order to make con;summers believe that is the life these hens lead when several months a year those hens are shut up inside out of the snow and ice and mud covered pastures in the upper Midwest. My girls stay inside when the weather is unsafe for them to be out roaming around chasing bugs. I don't like it but I do for them what I did for my human kids and protect them as best possible.

 

[Ridgerunner]

How do commercial chickens lay eggs under such poor living conditions?

Plow horses have been bred to pull a plow. Race horses have been bred to run fast with some endurance. You don't put a Clydesdale in a race, you don't put a Thoroughbred in front of a plow. They have not been bred for that.

Many dog breeds have been developed for specific purposes. There are so many different jobs they are called upon to do that there is no surprise in how many breeds there are. Some of these breeds in their modern form can have medical issues, such as bulldogs and their breathing issues, yet some people really love whatever breed they like, even if it has a potential medical issue.

The commercial laying hybrids typically used in the egg laying business have been developed to efficiently lay a lot of eggs under certain circumstances. Their bodies are relatively small so they don't need much feed to maintain their body, not like our larger dual purpose breeds. They are bred to take confinement well. Some of our larger DP birds also have been bred to take confinement well but some haven't. The commercial hybrids lay large eggs for their body size eating 16% protein feed. If the protein content goes up the eggs get larger. With their smaller bodies and already large eggs any increase in egg size can lead to laying issues like eggbound, internal laying, or prolapse. They are not fed a 16% protein feed because the commercial people are cruel and mean and enjoy torturing their chickens, it is a way to keep them healthy.

They have not been able to breed the natural decline in egg laying out of them, after the second adult molt the amount of egg laying declines enough that feeding them through a molt is not economical. So they are bred to lay for one or two seasons and then be replaced. The commercial egg laying hybrids have a deserved reputation for having medical problems, just like the commercial Cornish X meat birds. They have been bred to fulfill their function if raised and maintained in certain ways and not have long lives.

Due to public pressure some laws or regulations are on the books in some jurisdictions (not all) requiring increased space for commercial egg laying chickens. It does increase the cost of the eggs. I'm not sure how much it actually increases the quality of their life but it sure doesn't hurt. With 5,000 hens in one laying flock just a small increase in square feet per chicken can quicky add up. Many of us have pretty small flocks so an extra 1 sq ft per chicken isn't that much total space.

@Sarahmorgan I understand perception is reality to people. If you are familiar with a small backyard flock then that is your reality with chickens. It can be hard imagining any other method working. I see that on here all the time. My reality is that those commercial egg laying hybrids have been bred for certain conditions and a lot of study and effort has gone into determining what conditions work best for the most efficient production of eggs. If they are producing that many top quality eggs then I don't see those conditions as that poor for those chickens. I don't have those chickens and I don't manage mine like that. I would consider those poor conditions for my flock.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Do egg farmers in the land of the midnight sun need buildings to put hens in that can be blacked out so the amount of daylight is more natural?

My take on this is that commercial flocks lay well for a certain period (say 13 to 15 months as it can vary per flock) then production and quality drop so they have a decision to make. Do they force them to molt so they can get back to laying economically or replace them. They have metrics to help them with that decision. If they replace them how long do they have to feed those new chicks before they get eggs to sell? Months.

They are in the business of selling eggs so they want a steady stream of eggs. They want to manage when a new flock of pullets start laying so the eggs they get are commercial and not the small and sometimes weird pullet eggs they can't sell for a good price and may cause problems. To maintain a steady stream of eggs to sell and make a profit they closely manage lights.

Sometimes you see those posts where chickens have to have 14 hours or 16 hours of light to lay. Mine never have. The commercial operations have developed ways for every hen to get as much feed as she needs for health and to lay eggs but avoid food hogs from getting more than their share and the shy ones not getting enough. A common method is to have enough feeder space so every hen can eat at the same time and release a specific amount of feed at the same time when they are all hungry. Then they wait until they are all hungry to do it again. The 14 or 16 hour days are not because they need that much light to lay, but because that works best for their particular feeding schedule.

 

[Mrs. K]

We are commercial cattle ranchers. So while I have never toured a chicken egg laying factory - I have done so with milk cows, and pigs. And of course I know cattle.

My point is, you are talking huge expenses to make money by animal husbandry. NO one makes money if animals are not kept as healthy as possible. Healthy animals produce at an optimum rate.

A bird laying eggs on a regular bases, that is active, and eating is a healthy bird. They watch those birds like a hawk, because disease do spread and can at an incredible rate. People who work with animals tend to like animals. Maybe we are more realistic with the idea not everything gets to live forever, but we like animals.

I am not saying that every farm and ranch is perfectly set up, and I am not saying people don't make mistakes, but if you are going to make money with animals - they have to be kept in good conditions.

Mrs K