How long should integration take?!?

[cwelte]

Hello,
I have 4 adult hens: two black sexlinks, one Rhode Island Red, and one Barred Rock. One of the black sexlinks is "top hen" (her name is Paul because we thought she was a rooster at first and the name stuck) and is being a real jerk lately.

About three and a half MONTHS ago, we introduced two new hens to the flock, both 14 weeks old: one Americauna, and one Buff Orpington. The three other hens have no problem with them, but Paul will chase them away from food, from the coop, etc. etc, etc. She hasn't hurt any of them yet, but she continues to peck at them and make them squawk. If I lock Paul in the run, the other 5 get along pretty well.

We have a very secure enclosed run with a branch and that's where the two new hens have had to sleep this whole time because they're constantly getting chased out of the coop by Paul. I'm concerned that when they're ready to lay, that Paul won't let them near the nesting boxes. Something's got to change!

Over the last few days, I've been sneaking out at dusk to transfer the new hens into the coop. We lock up the run so we're not shutting the coop door at night. In the morning, there's some ruffling, but everyone seems ok until we open the run and let them free range.

Well, tonight I had it. I had put the two new hens in the coop and Paul starts to peck at the Buff! So I decided to take (Paul) out of the coop, close the coop door, and let her sleep on the branch in the run for the night.

Is this going to work? What else can I do to get everyone to just get along?

Thanks

 

[Punkybrewster]

I had a very similar problem with a sex link years ago. I culled her and brought instant harmony back to my flock.

 

[aart]

Might try multiple feed and water stations.
Once the youngers start laying, the pecking order will change,
Paul might be in for a rude surprise.
How big is your coop and run in feet by feet?
Dimensions and pics, inside and out, might help here.

 

[nao57]

I like the idea above of more than one food , water source.

Others had mentioned this working.

Another idea is maybe you can try also doing a bit of 'shell shock' by bringing out the main hens for a day in isolation, doing it to each of them once (separate from each other and from the flock), for just a couple of days.

The idea is an idea of tricking them into a feeling like, 'I'm so glad to be back with the flock, I was so lonely', etc. And to also sort of bust up the older hen group from making them have to interact with others besides their old core group.

 

[DougVC]

I havevv BBC read on BYC (not done this personally) that isolating the trouble maker for a couple days will cause pecking order to change as well. So if you have a way to isolate Paul from the rest of the flock for a couple days and then re-introduce Paul that may work. Similar to the above thoughts as well.

 

[Ridgerunner]

About three and a half MONTHS ago, we introduced two new hens to the flock, both 14 weeks old

So they are 14 weeks old now. They are still immature juveniles. Until my juveniles mature enough to force their way into the pecking order (usually about the time they start to lay) they tend to form a sub-flock and avoid the more mature ones. Until they mature if they invade the personal space of a mature hen they are likely to get pecked. It doesn't mean they absolutely will get pecked, some hens are more laid back than others, but it happens often enough they usually learn pretty quickly to avoid the older ones. It's important that they have enough room to avoid the mature ones day and night. Once it's dark and they can't see each other it's not a problem but mine are most vicious to each other as they are going to bed.

I look at integration as two phases. First is they they learn to live together without any getting hurt. My young ones form a sub-flock and avoid the older ones. Great! This is a huge success as long as no one gets hurt.

The second phase is they mature enough to join the pecking order. That's when they can eat together, sleep together, and form one flock. To a certain extent they may still hang in separate groups but when they do intermingle it is peaceful. I'm repeating myself but about the time the pullets start to lay is when I typically see this final merger.

If I lock Paul in the run, the other 5 get along pretty well.

Sometimes you get one particular hen that is just brutal to the younger chickens. With mine it's often a hen that ranks pretty low in the adult pecking order, as if she is protecting her status, low as it is. With yours it sounds like it's the dominant hen, as if she is trying to protect her flock from strangers. But they are not strangers anymore, not after 3-1/2 months. If you have sufficient room that should not be happening. But occasionally you get one that is a brute and will seek out the others even if they have a tremendous amount of room. I've never had one but other people I trust on here say they have. Does she still attack them when they free range or is it just when they are locked together in the coop and run?

Something's got to change!

So what can you do? If we knew how big your coop and run are in feet and what they look like (photos can sometimes really help) we may be able to come up with specific suggestions. Some generic things like multiple food and water stations and adding clutter might help. Clutter means improving the quality of the room you have by giving them places to hide under, behind, or over. You said you introduced them 3-1/2 months ago. What did that introduction look like? What I'd be looking for here is a way to let them reach maturity to see what happens then.

If this happens while they are free ranging that's a different problem. You can still look for a way to keep them safe until they mature and see what happens then.

I've had some successes and some failures in changing behaviors by isolating a trouble maker for several days. It can mess up their spot in the pecking order and change flock dynamics. If you can it would probably be worth a try.

When I have a problem I solve for the peace of the flock, not in favor of one individual. My entity is the flock and it can have different pieces. If you can't stand it anymore that is a possible solution, remove her from the flock. That could mean sell her, give her away, eat her, or permanently lock her up. I don't think you are there yet.

Where are your older hens during the day? Do they stay inside the coop all day or are they outside except when they are laying? If they are not in the coop they are not going to stop the pullets from laying in there. Hopefully you have two or three nests. With mine, if they were locked n the coop and run area, the juveniles would probably be hanging in the coop while the adults were out in the run so they could avoid the older hens. There are some things I have trouble envisioning about what is actually going on with yours.

It sounds like you are OK with the sleeping in the run as far as predators go. It sounds like things are OK when those two sleep in the run. If that is true, let them. Stop trying to force them into tight spaces where they get beat up. When they mature enough to force their way into the pecking order they will probably move inside on their own, provided there is enough roost space. Let them work it out themselves if that hen will let them.

 

[cwelte]

Thanks for the suggestions -
The new hens were 14 weeks when we got them, they're now 6 months old.

What I'm trying now is taking "Paul" out of the coop and putting the new hens in with the others at night (leaving Paul locked in the run to roost for the night).

We have one food station, but two watering stations, and I haven't really noticed many issues around food.

Fingers crossed - if this doesn't work, we'll try isolating Paul during the day.

 

[cwelte]

Hahahaha! I just realized that my BYC Avatar IS Paul!

 

[Compost King]

When I have this problem I tend to add obstacles to hide behind and avoid dead ends where young ones will get trapped. I tend to keep extra watering stations in dark areas, You can do that with food too but its not something I found was necessary in my situations. I found the youngsters hid in the shaded areas until they were accepted. I didn't do any hardcore observations to find out when I just knew it happened eventually. When they start laying is probably accurate, I wouldn't question it. More space to roam helps but obstacles to hide behind is more important. Even a large space with no where to hide means the youngsters are always in sight.

 

[cwelte]

Well, I think I've reached a solution (finger's crossed it holds).

1. Over this last week, at dusk, I'd take Paul out of the coop and put her in the enclosed run. I'd then take the new hens and (gently) push then through the coop door, closing it behind them so they couldn't come out and Paul couldn't get back in. (I have a temp cage for Paul that I'd use while I shuffled hens. but she ultimately had the whole run & perching branch to herself.)
2. I'd then go around to open up the back of the coop and physically put the new hens on the roosting bar next to the others. Sometimes having to push the others to make room (I'm alpha hen).
3. Then about 10pm, when they're all asleep, I'd open the coop door so that I didn't have stuck hens in the morning.

I did this for about 4-5 days when I noticed on the 5th day, the new hens were going in by themselves and there was peace in the coop.

It's been like this for about 3 days, then last night I heard one of the hens getting pecked at by Paul. She spent the night in solitary again. This morning, everyone is getting along again.

The interesting thing about this is our ameraucana was SO skittish up until this started happening. Now, she comes right up to me and lets me pet her. 180º attitude shift.